Wonderful lamp, congratulations. Isn't it funny that a company made a lamp for a particular niche that was to be used across the ocean. Here we have living proof of a niche lamp but I can't convince a soul that the niche was also filled by some companies within America.
Really nice photos, thanks for sharing. The appears to be very good condition, I hope one day I can acquire one this side of the pond....
I'm sure I have never seen an Australian ad with a X410, X458 or an X460. I'll be looking for one though.
I think you would be better employed looking for other stuff. I have never seen reference to the flounder ads in Australia. Have I ever searched for them - no. Is the possibility high that I would have seen one during the course of my many thousands of searches, if they were advertised in Australia - yes.
I promised myself I wouldn't do this but since you prayed. I know you were praying for an Australian ad - you can't have everything even if the big fella is on your side. I have researched Tilley Thatcher extensively and am confident I know the go to woa of the partnership. There are a lot of very good articles, photos and illustrations. It will be one of the topics I'd have on my site. Here are but a few that you might enjoy.
I'm definitely open to convincing! The Coleman lamps I've seen that have been converted for floundering were definitely homemade with crude cutouts in metal bowls. They also had no protection for the mantles, whereas the Tilley does a nice job with its globe. I would love to see adverts for a floundering lamp or photos of a company built model or prototype. The Coleman reflectors for the 220/228, 24X, and 20X series lanterns can have the reflector handles bolted on at a more comfortable angle to hold while directing it at the water. Those reflectors are terrible at concentrating the light, and are better at blocking the light rearward, than projecting it forwards! I always figured the Tilley floundering lanterns were used at low tide in the UK for fishing, and were then a happy addition to the seaboard USA fishing community. Here in Ontario, I'd be chatting with a conservation officer if I was caught spotlighting fish in the shallows with one of these! Mike.
@MikeO Very nice! I see you’ve had a bet each way with the lower insect screen. I find this position best for pre-heating with the Tilley torch: From: https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/tilley-x410a.13616/ But it is illustrated the other way, here: From: https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/x410-x458-x460.15851/ Cheers Tony
Makes sense, we, being in the southern hemisphere even the water drains rotating the opposite way as it goes down the plug hole.
From memory alone, I don't believe these lamps were sold in the UK. I suppose they could have unloaded any unsold one at the end of their era in the UK? Perhaps @Mackburner or @JEFF JOHNSON know? Hopefully, if I ever get get my site I wish for up an running, I think you will have your eyes opened.
@MikeO There were commercially made Coleman flounder lamps, but not by Coleman. This one is dated 3/77 on the fount. The tell on the commercial ones is the hemispherical reflector. The homemades used mixing bowls which have a flat bottom. I have seen two other lamps that were identical to this one. From what little I've been able to gather they were made by a fellow in Alabama who bought new parts from Coleman and then fabricated the lamps. He apparently marketed them through bait and tackle stores around the upper Gulf Coast. Certainly not a large enterprise but enough to qualify as commercial production.
I'm always impressed when people state their position on a subject that cannot be misconstrued. Is their factual evidence to back this claim? I have zero doubts that it was possible such an arrangement between Coleman and a 3rd party may have happened. Evidence of this particular arrangement would be interesting to see. In fact it did happen with Coleman quite a bit, both ways. Coleman supplying manufactures with parts and manufacturers supplying Coleman with parts with a whole product the end result. I do wonder, whom would be responsible in case of a failure, a failure that caused injury or loss of life? I doubt Coleman would warrant fishing lamps fabricated by a small time operator. Perhaps they did, it seems awful risky to me though. I guess it is also possible that Coleman engaged this fabricator to manufacture fishing lamps that Coleman then retailed themselves. I assume if such an arrangement was made, Coleman would have done due diligence on quality control before, during and after any arrangement was being kept.
That's a cool lamp, Reese. Looks like it's built on a model 200A lantern fount. Matty and I got discussing this(?) company (or another such company) in this thread on page 3: How Many Ways Can We Think Of That GPA's Were Used? Interesting to see them using a lantern fount as opposed to scrounging up old lamps to convert. A nicer design with the lantern fount as it put the fuel valve in a more convenient spot away from the reflector. I'll bet the sales reps from Coleman wouldn't have been very pleased to see one of these contraptions with their logo proudly displayed! Mike.
Thanks Jeff. It would not have surprised me if these products had been found in a Tilley catalogue or advertising at the end of the Thacker era because things went south between Thacker and Tilley. It would not have surprised me if Tilley had to unload the last of these export products domestically because of the tensions between Tilley and Thatcher. I thought it may be possible that Tilley may have refused to send the last orders or Thatcher may have refused to accept the last orders.
I bought my Tilley flounder in the UK from a private seller not a collector. I can’t see that anyone would have gone to the trouble and expense of importing one of these for use so I assume as @Matty suggests some of these were probably sold domestically. There’s also no sign of the Thacker import decal which is usually seen on the back of the reflector.
I made no claim for any "arrangement" between the fellow making the flounder lamps and Coleman. My understanding was he was buying replacement parts from Coleman. The fount is a 220 fount dated 3/77 with a centered bung for the burner. The last 220 that used a centered bung was the 220F which went out of production in 1973. In 1977 the 220J was the current model and the 220H and 220J models used an off-center bung with a different design from the 220F. There is also an added bit of piping using off the shelf iron plumbing pipe between the fount and burner to spread the distance between the two parts of the 220F style valve. One of the couplers can be seen at the bottom of the reflector in the first picture. The others I have seen are identical in terms of the reflector, the unpainted turned wooden handle and the method of assembly. It appears he might have been sourcing the wooden handle from somewhere rather than making his own as they were identical and have the look of factory made. I suspect this was a one man operation with low production numbers and no marketing or advertising. Most likely a garage build as a spare time money maker. From the others I have seen plus anecdotal evidence of people telling me "I remember seeing those in Fred's Bait and Tackle in Orange Beach." I feel justified in making the claim that these were commercially produced, i.e. manufactured with the intent of selling them. Was it a factory with large scale production? Pretty certainly not. Were they made to a standard model with more than a one-off produced. Yes, and distributed and sold. That's a commercial product.
They were commercially produced. My only argument was by whom. I have the polar opposite opinion to yours in regards to Coleman. That's should be OK as we are all allowed our own opinions.
Here's a section of a Tilley UK brochure advertizing them as a handy light to have for any purpose--in addition to floundering. Interesting that they mention the idea that they were "rid hard, and puttaway wet" by the Southern US owners so were made as low-priced as possible, but still of good quality. Mike.
Hi Jeff, Here's the link to the brochure on this site in the reference gallery: https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/tilley-here-there-everywhere-brochure.15914/ Hi Matt, I'm thinking maybe mid-60's. I've asked for any info on dates in the link to the brochure above, so possibly there's something you'll see that'll let you zero in on a time period. Thanks, Mike.
Hello Mike, thanks for posting the catalogue. Tilley sometimes used older images of their products in their advertising which can be confusing. Jeff.
Without referring to my notes, that is exactly the time I expected your catalogue to be from. Perhaps more the early 60's from memory. I do think that Tilley were forced to sell Thachers last order in the UK. As I said, things went south between Thatcher and Tilley and whilst I had no proof that Tilley would have sold Thatchers last order in the UK, critical thinking pointed to that being a distinct possibility. I also considered Tilley may have found an existing foriegn wholesaler that Tilley may have marketed to order to. However, the lack of evidence supporting the findings of these types of lamps other than in America told me it was more likely Tilley offloaded the lamps in its own domestic market. Tilley's domestic market includes the possibility of a railway line or some other industry that bought the lamps in bulk from Tilley.
See here: https://classicpressurelamps.com/threads/tilley-here-there-everywhere-brochure.15914/ Cheers Tony
