New owner Hipolito H500

@Cassidy44

 

To be sure, I’m very grateful for all the support and suggestions provided by the forum.

At this juncture it is probably important to note that I have nothing to indicate that the lamp was not working perfectly when I got it. My immediate motivation is to get it cleaned up and then try to light/operate it. If it doesn’t work I’ll use the offered remedies to fault-find.

As can be seen in my original pictures, the glass appears to have had something accidentally sprayed across it, probably when it was hot, that caused it to crack. Nothing else about the lamp implied that it doesn’t work, only that it looks pretty sad.

So my immediate intention is to replace the glass and the little rubber on the rapid pre-heater (both obvious faults) and obviously a new mantle, clean the lamp up nicely and try to run it. If it doesn’t work, we’ll go from there. I have little enthusiasm at this point for disassembling for the sake of disassembling. But there is no harm in having to fault-find a nicely cleaned-up, polished lamp if it comes to that

Many thanks to all for info provided thus far.

 

Don't worry too much even if the pressure gauge's not exactly working. Most are not that accurate anyway.
After a while of use and pumping, you'd get a fairly good 'feel' how much is required.
Just pump it up and see how long it'd hold pressure. This is the first requisite you'd need if you want a working lantern.
From my own experience on a Petromax(350cp) fount, I filled it half full of kerosene and pumped it up to around 3 bar.(can't remember if the gauge was showing 3 bar or 3kgf/cm2 or 45psi). I left it for at least a couple of days. The gauge didn't show any drop in pressure when I checked it after that time lapse. This one only works if the lantern comes with a footvalve at the bottom end of the fuel pickup tube.

 

I’ve managed to source a glass from our local supplier (“local” being a subjective term ) but it’s a frosted glass and also apparently discoloured/blemished. Given that it’s probably the only one in NZ, I’ve bought it.
So when it arrives (probably next week) I’m going to reassemble the lamp with a new glass and mantel and fire it up, see what else needs work. Watch this space

 

Good day guys, been a while since I posted but had other priorities.

I’ve now assembled the lamp and put a new mantle in, put a litre of kerosene in, pumped it up and set about lighting it. This is what happened:

1) I had no way of getting methylated spirits into the little bowl so tried the rapid-start nozzle. I got a lot of liquid fuel flowing around the top of the lamp. I’m guessing it blew out of the rapid start system. I ended up with an out-of-control fire that lasted a minute or so but after closing the rapid-start nozzle, it went out and left the mantle burning. So far so good, I’ll try not to use the rapid-start again in a rush

2) When the control knob is turned fully on and the pressure is up around 2 bar, there is not a huge amount of light coming from the mantle but more importantly, the light pulses. This could be because:

3 a) The only mantles I could get are 100-200 candle power and since the lamp is rated at 500cp, the mantle may be simply too small. Is this likely?

3 b) The mantle doesn’t have a string tie at the opening, it has a steel clip. The clip is smaller than the mounting point and consequently the mantle has an area that is not fully closed, probably allowing air to enter which may be responsible for the pulsing.

4) Instead of a glass chimney which I couldn’t get locally, I got a stainless mesh screen that exactly fits. I’m not sure if this is causing the pulsing but somehow I doubt it.

Lastly and probably my biggest problem is that the lamp uses up pressure real fast. After maybe 5 minutes it drops (on the gauge) from 2 bar to near nothing. But if the control knob is turned off (needle fully home), the lamp holds pressure indefinitely so the pressure loss is clearly on the business end of the lamp and not from the fittings on the fount.

I have a video of the lamp pulsing but even clipping it to 10 seconds, the site won’t allow me to upload it (file too big?) so can’t show you.

Any ideas would be of value.

 

Was the flame from the rapid preheater nice and blue like that from a blowtorch ? If not, the air holes in part no. 224 are probably blocked.


Have you replaced ALL the seals ? If the valve washer (see part no. 196 on the diagram posted by @MYN) is defective, with a pressurised tank - necessary to operate the rapid preheater - liquid fuel will rise through the vapouriser and pool in the top of the lantern and ignite from the flame of the rapid.

Definitely. Your lantern needs a 500 cp mantle, seeing as you're in NZ, have a look here Just Mantles – Mantles for most pressure lamps

Are you pumping the lamp back up after using the rapid ?

 

Honestly I can’t tell you what the flame looked like, it escalated to a bonfire quite quickly . I’ll try to check that when I pluck up the courage to light it up again. Before I do that I’ll check the air holes you mentioned.

As it happens I haven’t replaced any of the seals, I’ve followed other advice offered and lit the lamp up to see what needs fixing. Do you mean the washer 90 in the image below. I’m kind of inclined to think (maybe mistakenly) that if that assembly was dodgy, the lamp would not have settled down the way it did.


Thanks for the link to mantles, I’ve made contact.

Yes, I pumped the lamp up after using the rapid-starter. I pump up to 2 bars, watch the gauge go down literally in 5 minutes, pump it up again and so the cycle continues. Yet, if I shut the lamp down using the control knob, pressure stays up, no problem.

It’s curious that with the cap open on the rapid-start assembly, there was kerosene everywhere but after I closed it, all the excess fuel burnt off and the lamp started working more or less as expected. I’ll disassemble the lamp to the state in your photo and light it up to see what the flame looks like.

What is your opinion on the pulsing? Could that be due to a partial opening at the collar of the mantle?

Many thanks for your help, I’m sure I’ll get there soon.

 

I disassembled the lamp a little way, checked the holes in the rapid-start as recommended, all looked OK. Lit it up with some pressure and yes, it looks and sounds like a small blowtorch so I’m OK with that.

Maybe I need to go back to basics. My knowledge of pressure lamps is clearly pretty thin.

Firstly how do these lamps get started? How long do you have to pre-heat the thing and at what point do you open the jet? I tried to run the lamp again and got the same bonfire result. I suspect that I’m giving it herbs too early and the atomisation hasn’t properly started yet so the jet is delivering liquid fuel and not vapour. After the liquid fuel lying around had burnt up, the mantel started glowing more or less correctly.

How do you know when it’s ready to give it fuel? Because obviously the timing will differ from rapid-start to methylated spirits. I can’t see an obvious indication.

 

Find a means to fill the spirit cup full. Light it up and estimate the time required for it to nearly burn out. That's a little more than sufficient to preheat the vaporizer and kerosene for the job.
A rapid-starter would only require 1/3 to half the time of the spirit soft-start method.
To test, fill the fount up to just half full. Pump it up to about 1 bar(~1kgf/cm2) or ~15psi. The amount of air in a fully-filled fount is limited and therefore, pressure will drop faster than usual when the rapid is in operation. Do not start the rapid with full pressure. Too much pressure during rapid start-up usually results in either the flame blowing itself out or possible flooding/yellow flaming if the air holes are somewhat obstructed. They are very-very tiny.

 

So at the point where the meths starts to run out, the control knob lets some vapour through and the mantel is lit up?

 

Looking at your image, the flame from the rapid looks to be perfect so nothing wrong there.

No, part 193. This is what happens when there is pressure in the tank and #193 is not sealing correctly.



hence the fireball !

Correct. When first lit, the flame from the meths is quite substantial, let it burn until it starts dying down and is just short of licking the bottom of the mantle before opening the valve.

You can use a syringe but I've never found one with a seal that lasts for more than 5 minutes.
There are proprietry bottles which give the correct measured dose e.g. item 67 here
Petromax Spares Price List

These work well wash bottles lab at DuckDuckGo

I just bent a short length of 4mm copper tubing and stuck it in the cap of a dishwashing liquid bottle.

 

Excellent. That’s exactly the condition I’ve found. I’ll check out #193

I’ll fabricate a meths filler some sort, I need to step away from the rapid-start system.

Many thanks

 

Well one could try the gentle strat up.
Pressurise after pre heat. Off coarse this only work with the alcohol disc pre heater.

Also if pressurised: valve should be kept closed until pre heat is done. It is not as fast as a gasoline lantern.

Simple check is if kerosene is leaking before lighting any pre heater.

 

Thanks Wim, already established that I have weeping of kerosene under pressure from the needle at the vapouriser and have just ordered a few new parts from the UK. That will take a few weeks to reach me so will wait until I can solve my known problems before trying again.

 

I guess you tried to thighten the jet more then "normal" ?
This leakage from under the jet start at the bottom vaporiser valve.

 

@WimVe: Actually no, I haven’t removed or replaced the jet and knowing the previous owner, it’s very unlikely that he would have fiddled with jet either.

How does over-tightening the jet cause it to leak?

 

No, you should check if the jet is firmly on the vaporiser and may give it an extra push. Never over tighten any connection.
But checking if it sits coreectly and firmly is aleways a good idea. Most parts/connection on a pressure lantern get hot/cold/hot again and then may work themselves loose.

 

@Reinhard
Hello, dear friend, my question is, should this rapid preheater cover have a hole or not?
If it shouldn't be a hole, what are you using it for?
My lamp preheater cover was completely sealed and sealed by the factory, I opened it myself with a thin drill bit.
Was it the right thing to do or not?
thank you for your help

 

@Ghasem ,
The top nut of the rapid pre heater is factory made and delivered with a jet/hole.
If you drilled it, you have ruined it.
The jet bore is like the normal jet on top of the vaporiser very small. To small for a normal drill process.

 

If you drilled it, you have ruined it
☆☆☆☆
thanks for your guide

 

I am not sure what guidance I gave but it sometimes is better to ask here before drilling, soldering or otherwise repairing our lanterns.
Maybe you can present your Hipolito in its own topic ?

 

It is true that treatment should be done before it happens I wish at least I had a photo of the microscopic holes of this preheater heater. Please let me know if you have an educational link address or a photo. Thank you.

 

The hole in the cap looks big because it is countersunk, it is approximately only 0.19mm diameter. It can be cleaned with a 0.18mm wire (250cp needle).

Here it is sat on a LED


The main body. Like the hole in the cap, the centre hole is countersunk which makes it look big but it is the same as the hole in the cap 0.19mm. The two holes at each side of the centre can be cleaned with a 0.24mm wire (500cp cleaning needle).

 

There is a technical Information, that says the two outer holes have a diameter of only 0.17 ("Bohrung Anschlußkörper für Luft"):
Petromax, Aida und Standard Maßtabelle - hytta.de
I think a 500 cp cleaning needle could cause to much air flow in the mix and disturb the function of the preheater.
However, i made the experience by my self, that the diamters of the holes are delicate regarding the correct function of the preheater.
Regards - Steven

 

Petromax, Aida und Standard Maßtabelle - hytta.de
Ah, okay. Maybe there is a mistake at this page? :-(
I found another one, that says the diameter is 0.27: Lampenmaxe | Technische Daten
In this case the 500 cp Needle would be o.k.
I'll check the diameter at my own spare parts in the next days ... and give a feedback

 

@Steven67
Hello, thank you very much It is still unclear to me because the door of my lamp heater, which is called crown, was completely sealed by the factory. You threw a flashlight and its light is clear, but it was completely closed to me and I opened it with a drill

I think they completely covered it, maybe there is a leak

 

It looks to me like the single orifice in the outer cap of the preheater (part #221) is/was blocked by a piece of wire/pin. Perhaps the previous owner used a wire that was too large for this orifice when trying to clean it and it broke off.
The lower part of the preheater (part # 224) and the outer cap have a mating seat that must be clean and level to form a seal, which doesn't seem to be the case with yours. Otherwise, a stealthy air leakage will occur, causing pressure losses during operation, very annoying.
As the colleagues wrote before, the sizes of the orifices will have to match in order to achieve the correct fuel/air ratio for the spray mist. However, it is better if the mixture is a little too rich, (which may produce some soot deposits which will burn off while the lantern is in operation), than if it is too lean, which would prevent ignition.

 

Hi dear friend Your conclusion is much closer to the truth, maybe the lamp maker forgot to drill this one and missed it. I started to drill the upper cover to compensate for this defect It seems that I didn't do anything wrong and I don't deserve to be blamed Anyway, I thank all friends for their follow-up and guidance

 

Did you manage to get the rapid preheater working?
As long as you didn't make the hole on the cap too large, it should still function. If too large, the fuel and air might not mix or atomize very well.
Anyway, it is somewhat less critical than the actual diametres of both the actual fuel outlet orifice and the air holes that are under the cap.
When working correctly, the rapid preheater should appear like a small blow torch with a noisy/turbulent blue flame, often with a bit of yellow but not sooty.
Seems that you've managed to get some parts to make your Crown lantern working.

 

Hi, good morning Thank you for your follow-up. Unfortunately, the weather in our city is very cold, and it cannot be tested in the apartment because of the smell of oil. It seems that the pre-heater does not work well in cold weather. You have to wait until the weather is more suitable to go to a park or a suitable place. Let's test it so that we don't get ridiculed by others