1950s J.C. Higgins 7400

Hi all,
I’m hoping for maybe any response back, from a very astute J.C. Higgins, Sears Roebuck appreciator, or any techy; with good knowledge of the valve unit within this particular model of lantern, I’d read once that the main valve to tank valve, has an unusual component assembly, arranged within the valve, that was purposely set about achieving (during the build prototype), to immitate & resound, the characterful ‘roar’ of a Rocket, in full burn. This could well be a load of old cods wallop, (but I did read this, previously); as most lanterns tend to sound like rockets (worth, I feel, getting some type of yey’s or ney’s, back on this quandary, all the same)? I’d also be ‘all ears’, if there was any information, with regard to the same lanterns Check Valve dynamics, I might glean ? It doesn’t have a glide rod, but just screws into the pump cylinders base, via a slot head screw, fashioned to the end of its pump cup/glide rod, lock. I have a Check valve removal tool, just recently purchased, but the jointing configurations wont add up. There’s a way to remove the valve, surely; going to the lengths of making my own tool utensil to CCW the threads free, from the time encased check valve; seems the only way, up to press, I can bring to mind, unless any listener/viewer could gratefully propose an easier & safer way, which would prevent Wurzel, from having to screw on his Michelangelo bonce, for days on end, after the 7 pm news has passed ? Any possible help/response, would be great. Many thanks, Jon.

 

I can't remember if I thought these were AGM or Unimet. They are 1950s so possibly a rebadged Kamplite. Either way parts are a problem. I think I have one lurking in the shed but it's been years since I dismantled one or made one run. ::Neil::

 

as a rule the check valve tools come with 2 different sized tappered rods with threads at both ends as 1 will fit the valve inside the tank ;yes back when i did have that tool i used a large screw driver but being carefull not to let it slip and damage the slots on the check valve inside;hope this helps

 

I believe those were made by AGM - Same lantern as a KampLite , of the same era .

AFAIK , the standard Coleman check valve tool will NOT fit an AGM check valve - The milled end of the tool is too fat for the CV slots .
You'll have to use a big screwdriver , carefully , if the valve must come out .

OTOH , the valve may be fine - Try just removing the pump , putting a little carb cleaner in the pump well , and let it soak a while .
Then try forcing it through the CV with the pump .
Maybe do this a couple times , and you may find that the CV works OK - No removal needed .

Good Luck ,
Tom

 

Carb cleaner may well be the stuff to use but here in the UK I have never found a product other than in a pressure can. We can't buy it as a liquid. Not quite so easy to apply like that. I guess a heavy duty cleaner such as Marine Clean will do the same job though. ::Neil::

 

sorry my mistake but i thought they were like most check valves and the tool would fit ;

 

Well Neil, I finally got the Check valve out, but a different way than Henry said. I saw the arrow tip (which is usually braze threaded, on the Coleman glide rods) on pals table, so I did as prompted, when home.

Using the single pump rod to CCW to the on position (many turns), at this position you meet a nodule, but it can be forcefully (but not savagely), over ridden, by turning more in the same direction, and then the small slotted arrow head (for want of better words), but it's the inner 'shut off, & on' of the CV; should just drop out when retracting the slotted pump rod tool.

This didn't go to plan, it wouldn't over ride, just a dead end. Didn't want to break it and have it left in there, leaving the JC, permanently in operable, so I took my eye glass over the cylinders tube, illuminating a good view with head torch; I could see the inner slot, and the outer slots (L+R), were the same measure, 3 mill-ish, I then turned the centre slot with the same pump rod slot, back; so the three slots made one long dash slot. Then got out my very large screw driver (only 2 mil thick, though), there was a waddle of play; but after some soaking in release mixture, the duck was having it. Some strength needed here; I CC-Wised further, thinking it was still dead ended, but then it 'popped', and was free.

The problem now, though, is that the centre arrow plug thread, will not screw completely out, to separate for inspection, but neither will it thread back down, clock wise; as it's supposed to do; turning the CV off. This may be accomplished, easier; when I re-affix the CV back in the cylinder ?

Fred K mentioned these cuties were made by AGM, and the Kamplite generator, # S4903 is the replacement. One's on its way, as mine is too free with the gas, the tip hole got bigger, or it was used a lot, and then well cleaned up, before disappearing to a cupboard, for an age, etc.

Very little use, the lamp, on the whole, I suspected; but the genny filter was cream, and not black with carb. Yesterday morning, my other JC, arrived, and I've been non stop, in the sink. I may get the tank chromed, and the vent enameled turquoise, I wont need to count sheep, drifting off; with this vision to mind.. . .. . Thanks, every one. Jon.

 

Hi Tom,(Sorry for the delay, by the way, for my late response to all, regarding this matter, been up to neck, in it) I should apologize to Neil, as I'd then been describing what I'd done yesterday, with the CV to the new arrival J.C. Higgins; the better conditioned one (my first, pictured twice; or a dozen times, maybe?) keeps pressure very well, so I didn't go messing with this ones CV; however; the question was forwarded to the forum, because I'd noticed that the CV was a different set up, prompting the curiosity.

Thanks for your sensible advice, it makes sense not to unnecessarily remove the CV, when it may just get by with a flush out. The bonnie one pictured, has been left as the valve arrived; it works well, so wont meddle. It's the most recentest I've bought, that all the help has come in useful for. The CV to this, was a two way street, so it needed to be retracted & cleaned properly. As I mentioned in my response to Neils comments, above; the CV is out from the cylinder and I have got the bearing moving freely again, but all the while during its clean, I'm fretting as to why the centre on/off arrow plug thread, will not completely unscrew out (for inspection), or thread back down clockwise, to the CV's Off position. It is static, at its current resting position, similar to the top indicator pressure position of the Tilley X246, whilst at high pressure capacity. Do you think that when the CV is back in the cylinder, I should be able to administer more centralized 'bulls eye' torque, to correctly re affix the valve, back in working position ?

It's not important, I inspect the arrow plug thread, except for the experience, but I can't see why this small unit will not fully thread out, from the main hub of the CV; as I earlier mentioned I'd seen that it does separate,and because mine will not, maybe indicates perhaps, that there's a fault with it ?

Neil mentioned that spare parts for these models, are difficult to apprehend; could you see a Check valve being difficult to source, should this 2nd JC Lantern of mine, raise difficult issue; when it comes to re-installing the CV, after the finishing work has been affected ?

Regards, Jon.

 

Hi Jon,

Mike at Old Coleman Parts has an AGM check valve for sale Here which may be the same as yours. I do believe he will post to the UK, but if not, I can remail it for you.

I have an AGM 3016 which seems to be a dead ringer of your lamp. My Coleman NRV removal tool (the one usually sold on Ebay) seemed to fit the slots although I didn't go so far as turning it.

Another option for a wide blade screw driver is to grind the tip off a spade style wood boring bit like in this post here.

Dan

 

Hiya Dan, thanks for your intuition, and the link you added, from Piper I think, with the flat bit compromise, it is a top idea. I'm absolutely in undated with orders for my lamps, reaching all over the shop at the moment; but I've visited Coleman Parts site link (kindly added, Cheers), and the valve must be the one I may be needing, well; it says it's the one & certainly looks right.

Thanks out to all three lampers, including Kyle. I ain't too clever with the computing orders, and although I'm a member (I think ?) I do visit the site, for the obvious; but there's always a plug in, the site keeps making me download before I can supposedly use the service/load photos, etc, (although I have got a few replys, 1 or two, from Kyle and also a Malcom) it always springing up, on logging on, so I do not know if I have all the sites facilities but the replys tell me something is at least part workable).

Simply put, I can't fathom how to use the sites software, let alone place an order for this JC valve. There seems to be a glitch with my computer, or it maybe bcoz of my inexperience.

Could it be possible to also order four more #200 filler cap gasket seals for Coleman 220/228's; as well as the J.C. Higgins C Valve, and also a new S4903 Kamplite Generator ? The prices seem quite reasonable, but the shipping may be the hard cost, bit ? If I can't do this, it would be really appreciated if some one who knows what to do, could possibly arrange this ? I can pay by PayPal and I'm always straight with folk.

Please let me know ? Thanks.

You've an AGM 3016, ya say; I've no photos of these models, are they exactly like the J.C Higgs, even in colour ? I'd like to see the lamp, if not a hassle; The second Higgs I've just received (which is what the orders would be for), is nearly stripped and in the included scan, it took me a long time to re-size 2 pictures from the eight, I shot, I hope you can see this (be it's, loaded) ?

All being well, you may have an option or two, open to me ? I really enjoy saving these lanterns, from further doom.
Cheers, Regards Jon.

 

If you go to the Lamp reference gallery and then America-AGM you will see there are a few 3016 lanterns there.

::Neil::

 

Good advice by Neil, mine is there too [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/4830 .

When I first looked at your lit lantern it looked a lot like the 3016, but looking at your disassembled lantern it is quite different under the hood; different burner, generator and valve assembly. Very similar on the outside though.

PT me to discuss more about getting the parts you need from Mike at Old Coleman Parts.

Dan

 

Flippin' eck, all those AGM's, were just too much for me, and saying that, the shipping would be also too much. Tempting, all the same, but unless the shipping crews stop charging the rates they still are, the belts being pulled in a notch.

Spend more than the cost of the Lambo, on having it delivered to your door. It all just beggars belief, but if this is the SP, now; it'll only run to being more expensive, time ahead.
It's a complete killjoy, and more often than not, finances allowing; too much of a stretch.
Thanks, Jon.

 

Hi Dan D, I'm in need of your help, I need to Private Topic you about the parts order from OCP.com, but although I can get to the screen, once there, it requires I input the destination e,mail address. I do not know your particulars, here; just only that you're username is 'Dan D'; I truly don't know how to send a note to you, except from being in this wrong box, here. I will go back, and see if just your username allows me to PT you ? I'm new & have difficulties, very good of you to offer your help, with the Higgs. Jon.

 

Go to the member list on the top bar. Click on the initial and find the member you want. Click on that member and you will find an option to start a PM. ::Neil::

 

Cheers Neil, will give it a go ! PS : I beggared up the graphite packing in the clearing tip lever, to the JCH n.o 2, (there was a quarter left, before realizing) so remembered what you'd advised with the PTFE tape. Should I definitely use just water repellant (Silicone based) ptfe, or go and buy some special oil/petroleum resistant tape; if I'm to correctly barrier this from leakage, or any valve for that matter ?

I have affixed it anyway, just as a practice run and maybe you've never tried platting three, 1 and a half, foot, lengthed pieces, but I did this, and the bulk result made it much easier to coil round, and ram into the inner brass pipe thread. If this sounds dodgy, please let me know. Thanks, Jon.

 

I've looked for the "Members" list, on the top bar; and there does not appear to be anything spelling these words out ? I have also gone too 'reply', from Dan D's post text, where from this mail composition page, there was the option to add One member, I'd to click on the Buddy list, so I did and a blank page just opened up, with no names or print, etc, just a Close 'window' box was available. Cannot find this Members tab, the way you've described Neil, it's not there; on my screen atleast, any way. I've been in every department, on & off; all day, and it isn't in any of these, neither. Sorry, but I'd like very much how to find it. You said "Top Bar", so I went to the top bar, and there are ten options to choose from in this bar. The first, is Home, then the last, is Subscribe. Yes ? Thanks, Jon.

 

Perhaps you have to be a subscriber, which you aren't...

Otherwise, simply click on Dan D (in orange) at the top left of any of Dan's posts. That should take you to Dan's profile. At the top of that click on 'Start Private Topic' or whatever it is...

BTW, does anyone know what the correct (or substitute) mantle is for these?

 

David, Money is secondary, very secondary; in my little jotter book of life, I hope the ha' pennys worth will be worth going back over again, because you're now saying this may make a difference, am I correct with your communications point ? Being constructive ? That is most appreciated. Your colleague, Neil; knows I am not a subscriber; this is fact. What's the usefulness of allowing some one to join the site, but not have a voiced way, for them to communicate with others, within the site. Sitting at my computer, for hours on end searching for something I'm being told is there; isn't Cricket, but thank you for your involvement and constructive co-ordination Best Regards, Jon.

 

I have had mixed results with PTFE. In my Sunshine Safety Model 10 where the valve is well below the burner, it worked great. In my Coleman 129 table lamp where the valve is close to the generator, it got too hot and failed miserably. When I held a match under my PTFE packing string, it deformed badly. Maybe I had an inferior product.

For high heat areas (or any in general) I think that graphite would be best. I looked for a while to find a suitable material and had limited success until I remembered Terry's post .
Terry is quick to post. I paid for it on a Tues. and had some in hand on Sat. Not bad for trans-Atlantic mail!

I haven't tried it yet but it looks like it will do the trick; easily cut to the dimensions necessary.


Dan

 

David:

I would say a Coleman #21. I think these AGMs competed with the Coleman 200 series, and had about the same output.

Paul

 

Yes Dan, I will read all that again, it is of interest to me; I do not wish to risk injury, on a quick fix. I still do not know how to get in touch with you; Neil's told me I can; I've told you I can't. There are other people visiting the public topic, to gain insight, add un-necessaries, and probably soak up a few chuckles as well.

I need to know about the parts you had previously said you could source for me, or are you now saying (because there's no mention of this in your last post, to me) that this is no longer possible ? You had signed off with "then we can go on from there", do you remember ? Thank you, which ever, any way. Regards, Jon.

 

Neil, I am not a subscribing member, David Shouksmith, believes this is why I cant see the "Members" tab, on the Top Bar", you'd told me to access, to be able to contact double D. I do not know whether I am coming or going, right now. It would help, to get some correct information, for maybe half a day but it's Merry Goose chase time again, it seems. I'm too busy for this, I'll vacate for now. Thanks for the help, Best Regards, Jon.

 

Thanks, Paul - I'll try one of those tomorrow.

When I bought the lantern from a very eminent collector via ebay, he mentioned that it was apt to be somewhat 'frisky' on being lit. I presume that's because it's Quik-Lite or whatever. I'll give it 30 pumpstrokes, open the valve a quarter turn, apply a match and expect a flare-up before it settles down.

Jonathan, I'm not (ever) quite sure what you're saying, but this has me beat:-

Here's a list of the privileges enjoyed by the various classes of people here:-



It quite clearly states that a Registered User i.e. you, can create a Private Topic. So I'm not sure what your problem is...

 

Jon,

We are connected via PT. I sent you one and you replied. I then replied to that one.
I think you may need to refresh the page or log out and back in to get new messages. I don't think they happen in real time.

Dan

 

And for the sake of completeness, these are the extras you get for your $9 per year:-



Not much really (apart from the access to the Reference Library) but as you see, you do need to be a subscriber to view the member list (and use the 'quick reply' feature - I think you were grizzling about that the other day...)

Anyway, let's get back to the lantern now, please...

 

A bit of a serious expert from the Coleman forum, called Jim Douglas mailed me the answer to your question, David. They would be #99 Peerless, or Coleman 24A's. Both these have more length in the bobby sock shape, so they don't confine the jet gases, like they seemed to be doing when I first lit my JC Higgs with a 21A Heavy grade Coleman mantle.

I can't sat for sure if it was the 21A mantle that gradually just went to town on many parts of the inner globe, metals to the lamp, but the last half hour of the three hour burn, seemed to have the lamp behaving very agitated, there was a lot of yellow flame, shooting out nearly horizontally, from either the Air supply tube and airiation reservoir/ or the top of the mantle ?

I couldn't proper see the source area, for the these flames, because it was so bright, but they appeared to be flying out sideways. They made nearly all the metals, blued up; but this all was cleaned off, with not that much effort. Jon

 

I uploaded the instructions for my 1952 Coleman made 252A Mil-Spec lantern and the parts list specifies (explicitly) a 21A mantle.

Perhaps things changed over the years (the SunFlame mantle appears to be made in the 80s) and maybe other mantles work better, but my 1952 252A works fine with the 21A.

Dan

 

Yes, the 21 A's work brilliantly with the Milspec I glorified back to shape. What a superb lantern this is; there's no serious fiddling and dire attention required, when it's chugging away; and the brightness, wow, incredible, and from such low pressurization administered.

I do not yet follow how it can remain (not understanding, yet; the serious side to the science dynamics, whilst lit) so bright, with so little charge behind it ? Is it only because of the high volatility of the Naptha (Im use now), the burner manifold and fuel feed design, the quality coatings to the mantles; a combination of all?

It'd be interesting to see the difference in performance, running lit, from leaded fuel or any other compromise, to hand; when frugal problems mean desperate measures, in the field. A serious bit of kit (well; to me, anyway)hopefully cheering the soldier on, through the horrors of war.
It's fascinating to watch, when you eventually turn the valve off, and decide to call it a night; quite transfixing it is, similar to a shimmering lava lamp (see it in the dark), the gas bubble keeps rolling out another move, like it doesn't give a hoot, the musics been switched off, quite a trip, & very majestic ! Jon

 

You did (thanks!) and they do.

I'll try a 21A when I re-mantle the lantern and see how it goes.

Cheers...