This old lamp came pretty battered. It's a 300X without the pressure pip but with an aluminium fill cap and brass cage. It had had something drop on the hood at some point and the tank had three vertical cracks around the base. I re-shaped the hood as best I could and soldered the cracks up and tested for leaks with water inside, pressure tested with water inside and then empty in a bowl of water to check for bubbles. Apologies for the rather out of kilter vertical... Fast forward to today, after passing the initial pressure tests it's been painted (Holts HDRed01 with automotive lacquer), filled with paraffin and test lit. But only test lit for a short period of time as it's started weeping from a new crack! Would you recommend using POR15 to try and seal it? Or is this going to be a shelf queen/spares lamp only?
Perhaps another member will have a sound spare tank, but if not then another 300X will turn up and that one will be useful for parts, Jeff.
Is there not a 'Custom/Fine rotation' facility on your image manipulation program? - in this case just +1 degree...
Yes there is, however, I had adjusted it and posted it before it became glaringly obvious that I'd over-corrected! I was kind of in a hurry to eat dinner and didn't spot it
I never even noticed it I'm out of kilter all the time anyway . Nice paint job. I would give it the POR15 treatment when you have a few lamps to do to make it a viable exercise. To do one lamp is expensive . Steve.
Thanks Steve - unfortunately, reds seem to be the hardest colours to spray properly, especially the darker shades (and don't cover well) - the paint job doesn't satisfy my OCD nor a close examination, but I have no inclination to correct it yet! I will look into getting some POR etc from Frost - I have a feeling the landy will need some too!
Lovely paint job. Wish I get a finish like that from a spray can. Just needs one of Steve's hood caps to finish it off.
Sidders, you can only see the good side! Trick is to take tank back to metal and then clean with a good thinners (e.g. panel wipe) spray with primer, flat off with fine/very fine wet & dry when primer is hard then re-prime (if needed) & re flat. For a red like this, use a red that covers well (I used Ford Red - it's almost crimson), re flat when hard. Then cover with thin coats of top coat aiming for even coverage. Re-flat when hard and spray with a final top coat. If you're happy with the effect, spray with lacquer (automotive) using thin coats and wait to harden inbetween. Always clean with thinners between coats (I use kitchen towel rather than cloth so I don't put contaminants onto the work) and spray in good weather (keep bugs & dust off!). If you spray in too hot/humid/too cold conditions you won't get a good coat - and if you overspray you'll get runs. It, of course, started raining whilst I was spraying! It's bad to be impatient or on a tight timeline...
Hi expat beautiful restoration, the paint job is superb. But what a terrible shame your tank has stress cracks, after doing such a brilliant job of the paint work. I personally would source another tank, POR15 is a brilliant product but it is designed for non pressure fuel tanks, quite a few members have used it on tanks with stress cracks with success and recommend it, I am not doubting any one who has used and recommend it with a tank with stress cracks. MY personal feelings, are it coats the inside with a very thin layer of strong epoxy type paint, even though it has sealed a tank , I can not see that tank being as strong as it should , and will it stand up to regular use, and would not want a tank to fail while in use.
Hi xpat, you could all so look on ebay but it is a gamble as it could al so have stress cracks or a blown bottom. By the way when I restored my 300x,originaly the pump knob even thoguh brass it was painted maroon, but I all so decided to polish the pump knob, as it looks really nice some brass with a painted tank.
Yes I did the same on mine with both the pump and the filler cap and release screw... As you say originally these were painted.
I've personally used POR 15 and had good success with it on pressure lamps. However, those applications were for repairs of corrosion related leaks (pinholes). Repairing stress cracks seems questionalble to me as the fount strength would seem to be compromised. From an engineering perspective, the POR 15 would have to carry at least a portion of the hoop stress that is present in the fount when it is pressurized. The hoop stress is a tensile stress present in the vertical wall of the fount tangent to the surface of the fount wall and parallel to the plane of the surface that the lamp is resting on. As thin as the POR 15 when it dries, I would think the actual stress magnitude to be in excess of what the POR 15 can safely handle. All that said, seems I've heard of some using POR 15 for repair of stress cracks, but I don't plan on using it for that.
I have used POR 15 to repair stressed tanks many times and I believe it is OK and safe to use the lamps afterwards. However what you feel is safe or not is up to you and I am not about to argue the point because you have to what you feel is right. However these tanks are much stronger than you might think. Vapaux were made by an English engineering company who followed the indstry standards for pressure vessels. So a working pressure of 30psi means a user test pressure of 60 psi and a factory test at 120psi. Incidentally Coleman test at 200psi. It therefore folllows that the strength of the tank is good for four times the pressure we give them and in fact at least twice the pressure we can apply because there is a limit beyond which the pump will not allow. So yes a stress crack does compromise strength a little but rarely enough to make the tank fail. In any case if a kero lamp fails because a POR15 seal fails then it makes a mess which will be the same as if it had not been sealed. Not a disaster. This is not true in a gasoline lamp though and whilst I have sealed gasoline tanks they are generally only run as a one off test to see if a burn can be achieved and at a lower pressure. In all cases any newly sealed tank is pressure tested under water first to make sure the seal is effective. I suppose I have sealed well over 50 lamps by now and I have only had one failure. That was when I tried to seal a Radiolite lamp which had a failed base plate seal. The solder seam failed because the base plate flexed the tank rim and this flex also cracked the epoxy resin. It follows that POR15 will not fix a Tilley B tank because that is also a base plate flex problem. All the stress cracked tanks I have sealed have been successful. and I have no problem in using sealed tank on a kero lamp. Gasoline lamps I tend to be a little more cautious with and if I want to run one again it is always run up to pressure and left to stand for an hour to make sure the seal is still holding and then the lamp run up to about half pressure and never left running unattended. ::Neil::
http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/everyone-please-read-your-founts-depend-on-it-6460652?highlight=caswell These guys say this stuff works. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
There may be risks of using a fount sealed up with POR15 but then again a tank with no stress cracks could develop a crack and start leaking during use. In fact it is probably more likely to happen when the tank is pressurized and therefore under stress. So I don't think it is accurate to automatically say that no stress cracks = safe, POR 15 = unsafe.
I used POR15 on this Tilley R1 and have been running it over winter with no problems.... http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/5661
I'm not so concerned with the stress cracks that have been soldered but more with the one that opened & started leaking! When I get my hands on some POR15 I'm going to give it a go, even if it's just to satisfy my curiosity!!! Thanks again - especially with the idea of forcing the POR through the crack
I suppose it is really a matter of trying the stuff and then testing to see the result. My experience is generally good but I do totally understand the scepticism particularly when playing with gasoline. I know it is expensive but some of the stuff you need can be used just for cleaning so buying a quantity of Marine Clean is never a waste because it is awesome stuff for cleaning out the garbage inside a tank. Be good to do a liner in a lamp and then do a series of pressure tests on the tank by pumping up to working pressure and holding it there for at least four hours and then letting it down before repeating. In effect, without fuel, repeating the sequence that a working lamp would undergo over several tanks full of fuel. If the tank retains integrity after say ten repeats maybe you could say it works and is safe to use. ::Neil::
I'm struggling with some of the scepticism to be honest.... I have reservations about the long term viability but that's about it. As far as I can see, if you have a tank with a slow drip before treating it the worst that can happen is you will be £40 worse off and still have a tank with a slow drip. It's never going to be worse than before the treatment and reading some of the comments in the link it sounds like they are expecting tanks to suddenly burst like balloons! It just isn't going to happen... Say six months later it "suddenly" fails you'll just have a slow drip and loose a bit of pressure again no great drama. Perhaps if we were talking about lamps where the bottom had dropped out I could understand it, but generally we aren't.
I have some steel tanks that I'd like to keep corrosion free and there's also the issue of the increase in ethanol in fuel that means I'm going to need to line the insides of the fuel tank of my BSA (amongst other things) so a little experiment with this won't hurt! As you say, with a petrol lantern/stove I wouldn't be tempted, but with paraffin it's not so critical!
Well if you have a look at this thread. http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/5434 That lamp was leaking as badly as I have ever seen one. Too many to count. All round the mid seam and all over the body of the fount where there are multiple random stress cracks. In fact it was leaking so badly I could not pressure test it at all and had to immerse the tank with the pump above the water and pump like crazy to see the leaks. As you will see after three layers of POR 15 it was tight and I was able to run the lamp for three hours without any leakage. OK with a low pressure but it stayed sound. So the stuff works and I find it quite reliable and safe. I am still cautious with a gasoline lamp but a couple of minor stress cracks should be OK. If the Hinks had to use gasoline then it was so bad I would not dare try. In fact it is a gasoline burner but I will only ever run it with kero. It might work better with gasoline but I am not about to find out. I might like POR15 and think it is pretty good but stupid I ain't when it comes to gasoline lamps. ::Neil::
Yes I was so very pleased to make it live again. It was the worst condition tank I have ever sealed. I have done a stove which was about as bad before so I knew it might be possible but it was good to prove the method. It will be run twice more with a little luck. A trial run here to make sure there are no problems and then around three hours or so at Ipswich next month. We shall see if it will stand this. After that it probably won't run again. ::Neil::
Thanks for the link! That was pretty extreme to have to tape the base to stop the POR leaking through! Glad you got it fixed enough to run!
Yes it was rather extreme and to be honest I was expecting a failure because of that. This hole was the main reason I shoved three layers inside this tank. I wanted to build up a heavy layer to reinforce the areas of the leaks. POR15 sets seriously hard. If you ever get the chance pour a little in a shallow dish and after curing try to dig it out. You will find that it is pretty tough stuff and may give you more confidence for tank repairs. ::Neil::
