Ebay listing !!

Theres a Nulite listing by Jeff Johnson 1912.

He has poached the advert from gdawg (9714 ) Wooster , Ohio ,USA.

The advert is still live on ebay

Have we changed the ebay policy ?

mick

 

This looks familiar mick

ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1912-Advert-Nulite-Gas-Gasoline-Lighting-System-Chicago-Solar-Light-Air-Light-/151558460874

this site
http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/8444

pete

 

Once again Mick Emm is making false accusations against me, as that advert and others were sent to me by a friend in the USA..

Ever since i was invited to join this website he has been trying to cause trouble for me and I have reported his post to Ross.

I have made a great deal of effort towards this website and that is shown by the amount of posts which i have and i do not take kindly to being stabbed in the back yet again.

I phoned Mick a few minutes ago and left a polite message on his answering machine, Jeff.

 

That was discussed at length here: [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/8399

I can understand the discomfort some feel about this. I've felt that way myself in the past before my understanding of 'fair use' for such trade advertising. The seller is selling the original ad. The value is in owning the original. If the value was in the info sellers would be better placed in selling copies & making the auction pics difficult to re-use.

The linked discussion above did cover using such material passed between collectors & my opinion is a credit to the finding collector is only good manners.

In summary it's acceptable to use trade material such as this where it provides a useful resource,especially when it's held in a relevent, organised repository like CPL.

I don't think we need to acknowledge sellers of the originals on ebay any more than we have to credit or seek permision from the likes of Tilley, Primus, Buck & Hickman, Welsbach or any other publisher of trade matrial, adverts etc. For info Primus & Coleman have told me, in writing that such use is perfectly fine with them.

If there is a consensus of opinion among CPL users that posting such trade material without permission of ebay seller or online archive service or the original publishers is wrong we need to have that conversation. I'll happily hide the Library & suspend subsciptions which allow access while that takes place. Perhaps the team of founder members can guide that process?

My view differs slightly re using ebay pictures of actual lamps without acknowledgement but even then there is a strong case for fair use. The rules request permision should be sought - should that change?

So - let's have the conversation.

 

Hi Jeff !
You are not being stabbed in the as you say . I collect Nulite storm lamps this was purerly a speculative observation by myself as I have a lot of paperwork on nulite and the other lamp companies associated with nulite.

Please note everyone Jeff has just rung my phone !!


WHAT I OBJECT TO , IS YOU PHONING ME AT 10.30 pm ON MY PRIVATE PHONE AND DOING YOUR USSUAL TRICK OF TRYING TO IMPOLITLY THREATEN ME . DON'T PHONE AGAIN !
Remember all the very abusive phone calls I got from you two years ago one Saturday night about midnight.
You have a proberlem lets discuss it on site.
mick

 

I've certainly seen a lot of your ads on ebay - the actual same images. It would seem your friend is doing what you are 'accused' of.

Is that a problem? Members here need to decide what they want.

 

We need to have a discussion about the principals of posting such info on CPL. Any personal arguments are best kept off-site.

 

Mick you accused me of poaching that advert and i phoned you and left a polite message on your answering machine and once again you were not man enough to answer your phone and you have been trying to cause trouble for me for years.

The last time was in 2013 and i was in a state of mourning as i had lost many relatives that year, which is something that you do not even take into consideration.

You have no right to post trouble making topics on this website.

I said that i do not take kindly to being stabbed in the back again, i did not mentioned any other part of my anatomy.

My effort on this website is positive and this is the thanks that i get for it, Jeff.

 

Personal disagreements should not be aired publicly on CPL, in my opinion. It only leads to unhappiness, and the discomfort of other members who have no idea what is going on.

CPL has a PT function...

On the issue of use of published information/images etc, common sense should prevail: the 'legalality' of copyright ect will change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and from case to case; and in any event, will be immaterial in the use of CPL and CSS. That is, it won't really damage someone, but it may hurt their feelings.

Therefore, I am clearly of the view that it is polite to acknowledge where other's material is used, and to seek permission where it belongs to them in a private collection.

Public domain and almost all proprietary information does not really require acknowledgment, but it is often a good idea, for the information of others, to cite where that information came from.

Tony

 

Tony,

I see where you are coming from but where does it end? Do you suppose any time anyone offers information they provide on this site that they should cite where that information came from?

For instance someone may ask what lamp is this? You may know it's a Tilley 246B. Are you supposed to give them that information and cite where you first learnt the information?

Again, I know what you are trying to say but lines have to be drawn.

 

Yeah, take it outside, fellas...

 

Hello David, i concur, but i did not start this topic, Jeff.

 

Matty

I don't mean one should acknowledge every bit of detail.

If you learn something from someone or something and you use that information that's life...

I'm more talking about a situation where you use an image, text or a substantial piece of information in a work of your own.

If, for example, I wanted to make a timeline of every Tilley X246 ever made, the easiest way to do it would be to use images from CPL and information from other sources like published books on pressure lamps.

If I were to then post that timeline here on CPL, I would say whose images they were (if known - if not I would acknowledge CPL). I would also say "additional information from [whichever book/author).

If I were to publish it for commercial gain (not likely), I would go further and seek permission to use the photographs.

The usual practice in writing articles (I'm not talking about making comment or giving an opinion) is to acknowledge where your primary information came from.

Note: None of the comments and opinions in this post are directed at JJ or ME or anyone else for that matter.

Cheers

Tony

 

Well put Tony, and I agree with David's comment. Take it outside.

 

It is perhaps worth considering that adverts are just that and if they were published in a trade magazine or newspaper then there will have been many copies printed and distributed at the time and it is reasonable to see more than one original surviving. In fact given the number of people searching for these adverts it is perhaps not a surprise that several original copies are held by collectors or dealers.

::Neil::

 

I must say that I strongly disapprove of a member starting a topic with the express purpose of making accusations against another member, irrespective of the merits of said accusations. I think this is not in keeping with the intended spirit of participation on this forum.

Besides, no-one likes a tattle-tale.

 

Don't think there's any need for any further opinions, as I'm sure their already outside sorting it out

Lets leave this thread to die its death aye

Cheers

 

Hi !
The advert in question is for sale on ebay .

The policy of this Classic Pressure lamps site was agreed along time ago no ebay talk while post live !
mick

 

But Mick, it was you who first mentioned eBay. Jeff didn't - he just posted a copy of an advertisement without mentioning where it came from...

How do we know that what Jeff posted is a copy of that particular eBay item anyway? Might be; might not be. Who knows for sure...

 

Hello Phil, that's it exactly and thankyou for stating your opinion, Jeff.

 

Hello David, I could not have put it better and thankyou for making that post. Jeff.

PS., I cannot understand why anyone would object to the posting of reference material on this website, as reference is one of the main reasons for the existence of this website.

 

I think you are misremebering or misunderstanding the 'policy' & in any case it's a huge stretch to say these posted adverts are a breach of this in anyway as no link is being posted.

The policy was not to post links to live 'interesting' ebay auctions. CCS has an Auction Watch section & it was asked of the founder memmers if one was a good idea here. It was decided against. Some don't like auctions they are hoping to bid on being posted.

Outside of a dedicated section to post the links - where posts can be set to auto-delete (like on CCS), allowing them elsewhere in the forum can lead to links to long dead auctions making a nonsense of any subsequent discussion. The recommendation was to post the detail by way of a screenshot or ask the seller to allow pictures of whatever lamp was for sale AFTER the auction had finished.

It was in no way a bar to the type of posts that kicked of this thread.

I'm locking this thread. If there's any more folk want to say on the matter please do so via the Contact Us link under Help & FAQ.

If the grievance emanates from outside CPL please keep it that way. Whatever the reasons CPL is a friendly venue for collectors & enthusists not the Pressure Lamp Fight Club.