The perfect lantern

Let's be constructive!

What would the perfect lantern look like? Which features would it have?

There is something wrong with just about all lanterns ever made. One easily gets too hot, another is difficult to light when there is any wind, a third needs a very carefully designed and placed mantle to only maybe work sometimes.

But which features from different lanterns really do work well? And could we make a list of them and use it as a blueprint for building the perfect lantern?

For instance, which pump design is the best? Which vapouriser? Which burner? Which pre-heater? Which general size and shape of the lantern?

 

The Petromax 829. Ticks all the boxes.

 

Good suggestion, Eiremax, but some say that the new ones are not as good as the old ones. So there must be some differences, even within the range of this one model - what makes it good?

 

Its reliable, versatile, looks good and parts are widely available. It can be modified into a cooker or heater. The strength of the light can be modified. I'm currently running a 250cp jet but you could run a 350cp or its standard 500cp. Show me a lantern that can match or improve on the above? Good thread idea by the way

 

Just none of them mine!

TBH, I think I'd rather light a wickie-crap...

 

Okay, the list includes now:
* Adjustable strength of light
* Modification to cooker possible
* Modification to heater possible
* Good looks
* Reliability
* Wide availability of parts

Is there any lantern that can do any of the above better than the Petromax 829?

Personally, I think that I have heard of lanterns with adjustable light through the control cock - which imho is better than replacing jets. But which are they and does it work?

 

I'm with David, never had any luck with mine. Although it is perfect for when we start a lantern wanging competition at Newark.

Give me a Coleman 295 for light and a Coleman 425 for cooking and I'm as happy as can be as well as the fact both kick out more than enough heat when I'm camping.

To be honest I'm glad no one made a perfect lamp, at least I have an excuse to buy another one. "Ahh well you see, I need that lamp because it's..."

 

Okay Matt, you say the the Petromax doesn't work? So it is not reliable?

And there is not any real need for being able to modify the lantern to become a cooker or a heater. Okay, the last bit is very relevant, I think, because these lanterns do give a lot of heat, and if you can live with also getting the light then you should be happy with that. But why do you prefer a separate cooker?

What else makes the Coleman better?

 

Petromax - horrible cheap clanky metal, too tall and skinny so don't meet British Standard for tilt, Too complicated - too many parts and fiddly adjustments. Easy to break ceramic nozzle which comes loose anyway and needs frequent tightening. Petromax black-mantle disease. Too bright when they're working and cause glare. Just no.

Just about any Bialaddin or Vapalux for me although they're so reliable they're a bit boring. Most Colemans except the 275 and those piddling little 222/226/229 things. The 201 takes some beating although it's a bit boring.

Coleman Quik-Lites are great - so simple there's virtually nothing to go wrong and usually work right out of the box even after decades of not being used. Add some fuel and mantles, pump them up, light - you're away. Perfect!

 

Coleman 237 and Primus 1020
Simple, reliable, classic looks, built to last forever.

 

Okay, the updated list:
* Adjustable strength of light
* Modification to cooker possible
* (Modification to heater possible)
* Good looks, classic looks
* Reliable
* Only consists of few parts - simple
* Burner nozzle not ceramic
* Wide availability of parts
* Easy adjustment
* Low and wide, cannot tilt in the UK
* Prevents black-mantle disease
* Can be stored for a long time and still work
* Solid build quality

This can be written in the adverts, but if I give this list to the engineers, they wouldn't know what to do with it. Can we translate it into some specific part details? For instance: maximum height, minimum width, min/max weight, burner nozzle must be metal, etc.

 

Well I can't say they're not reliable, because I only have the one which as I say hasn't been any good at all and has rather put me off. But I'm sure others will find that they are reliable and having seen operational ones, I have been impressed, they're just not for me.

On the subject of separate cookers, I think it's a bit of a gimmick when you have a flat cooking top on a lamp. I remember a topic on here a while ago that raised the very good point that if your cooking in the dark your light source is under your pan and therefore you can't see what your cooking so you'd require a second lamp.

The Coleman 295 I mention probably isn't one of the best lamps Coleman have made, but I love using it because it's just so easy to use, pump it up turn on the fuel and light it. Also with it holding no antique value I don't worry about things like the enamel top which I would on say a Coleman 200.

But, is it the perfect lamp? No. Not if you don't like using lamps that run on such a volatile fuel. So when the perfect lamp is produced it'll need to run on either paraffin or Coleman fuel/substitutes.

Edit: I'm going to agree with David about the 201. They too are fantastic little lamps that burn brightly and still work after being left on the shelf. Plus I love the looks of them, that's why I have two, one new with box the other good but I can light it if I want.

 

That makes me think that the hood should not be enamelled, it should just be metal. Otherwise it will be too fragile.

No pre-heating seems to be a good feature, if it can be done in the safest way. Can such a feature be made with paraffin?

 

I think the (more or less) perfect lantern exists in a Coleman 327 or Air-O-Lantern. If you like a
built in pump, then make it a 427. You can't get much more simple in a lantern design, and they
are pretty much completely reliable. Besides the pump leather, they have only one other moving
part, the valve shaft. Also, the valve seat is metal on metal and lasts for many decades.
Something that cannot be said for any rubber or synthetic valve sealing system.
Making one adjustable for light output is as simple as on any lantern. Put less air into the fount.

My second place would go to my Tilley 246, which seems a real workhorse. A few more things that can
possibly go wrong than the Coleman, but mine is very reliable, too.

Least in my view would be Petromax types. Many things to maintain, and even the "real" ones like
my genuine Petromax and Hipolito offer some problems when they seem to otherwise run well.
Just sudden mantle black or leaks seem to pop up.
Certainly, adjustment of the conducting rod for keeping a new pricker in the proper position after
replacement of that pricker is a complete pain in the pants.

For heating, it seems all lanterns can be used in that way. They are heaters by nature. For warming
food, most any lantern can be equipped with some type of top grate on which to set a pot.

 

Metal/plated metal sounds like a good option, although going to Coleman again they do seem to have got the enamel on the lamps they produce better and more durable than that used by Tilley and vapalux.

I don't think it would be possible to have an instant lighting paraffin lamp, so the pre heaters that use the paraffin from the tank are a good idea e.g Tilley BR49 and Petromax rapid pre heaters. But again, neither of these are perfect, so a new design is required.

You've got your work cut out.

 

For the hood, something like the early Bialaddin 300/300X - made out of brass with the heat deflector held on by 2 brass screws. That means you can then have different style deflectors or even a flat top if you wish.

For the vapouriser - well, you've got coleman style, tilley/bialaddin style or petromax style - I'd prefer it not to have a preston loop in it but if you're wanting to pre-heat rapidly, I don't know how you could avoid it.

 

Tilley/Vapalux and Bialaddin are out as the damn vapourisers don't seem to last long and cannot be serviced.

 

Perhaps we need to go down the route of these with exchangeable jets again? The idea is good but it's getting the final design that works perfectly and isn't a pain to produce (for someone else ).

 

The older ones did last quite well - the modern ones don't last so well, true.

The good thing about them is a) you can still get them b) they are simple and c) they aren't that expensive. If one was to consider manufacturing a similar vapouriser these days, one would do a similar thing to what Stu has done with his vapourisers (similar to the old Veritas vapourisers).

Matthew, I quite agree - a removable jet & changable cleaner tip (a la Petromax etc) should be the best way to do it but would be more expensive (and the QC needs to be good enough that the jets don't unscrew themselves!)

The alternative is a coleman type - I'm still not sure that they are as "good" a design for paraffin but I'll let others more familiar with paraffin colemans chime in on that!

 

True, Dean, it looks like "easy to maintain" should be on the list. Tilley has an advantage here, with their "no need for any tools" approach. The separate pump unit is also easy to maintain and replace. But the construction should, where possible, be with rubber-free sealing.

How can it be that Coleman kerosene lanterns work so well, when they (as far as I can tell by looking at them) are designed almost like the Veritas - which are said to be not very reliable?

And what is wrong with the preston loop vapouriser?

The Tilley vapouriser seems to be the most brilliant design of them all: simple and, I though, long lasting. Is it a general problem that they do not last?

And is it a real problem that a one-mantel lantern is casting a shade - should we go for a double-mantel design?

The two-piece hood might be a good idea. Petromax has today a one-piece hood but in order to make it look good and different, and to be "refresh-able", a separate top plate could be good. It has been used by several manufacturers during time, and maybe for good reasons. But is the old Vapalux construction sufficiently weather proof?

The Petromax has some holes at the bottom of the cage section - where old mantles and other dirt can fall down and share a not-so-easily-cleaned space with dead spiders and other things. It looks like Coleman (and Primus and others) have thought of this and made this part without holes. Tilley, of couse, simply has nothing there, so the dirt will fall to the ground. But no matter what we do, the whole lantern should be easy to clean.

And just an idea: maybe a preheater could be inspired by that old Tilley type, that took the fuel from the tank. But instead of making it simply a preheater, it could be extended in function and work more or less like a non-pressure storm lantern (Dietz, Feuerhand, etc.). While working this way it would give light, sometimes sufficient in itself, but at the same time preheating the vapouriser. So when using the lantern as a pressure lantern there would be two steps in the starting process, but they would both give light, hence getting close to a non-preheating construction.

Would this make sense?

 

The Petromax style one is probably going to be the most expensive & tricky to manufacture. It's not fun to clean the loop on them either.

Just a quick Q, is this a brainstorming session to actually build lanterns? If it is, great idea, but don't forget that there may be issues with patents (etc).

 

I thought of this as an academic exercise - is it possible at all to describe what is best? But then, if it is, why not as the next step consider if we could convince someone to actually produce the thing - or do it ourselves?

About patents: it seems to me like nothing new has been developed in this area for many years. If any patents are still current, we would then need to look at them and find a solution (maybe pay the license holder or make a different design).

 

I reckon the perfect lantern is the one you are enjoying at the the time. For me tonight it's this one. Just bloody perfect!

 

It looks like the old Vapalux still has it

 

The Primus 1020 vapouriser is the simplest out there, extremely easy to clean and will last a lifetime. I find it hard to understand the issues with the petromax,(Made in Germany only) I never have suffered problems with the 829, an excellent all rounder, a kit can even be bought to convert it to run on alcohol if needs be. Different strokes for different folks

 

Except your carrying hand gets uncomfortably hot with any of the X246/A/B series. Colemans are far better in that respect...

Please come to England and fettle ALL my Primus and Petromax lanterns - NONE of them have ever worked properly...

 

Indeed it has. Perfect!

 

Unfortunately, it is still far too hot here to light a pressure lantern at present! Although I'm sure it will get cooler in the evenings quite quickly...

I always used a Tilley for night fishing, great little lamps and my older 246B was fantastically reliable and so was the 246A, however, lighting them was not fun as the wind picked up... I then moved on to an old ex-military 305 - it's simply my go to now and as it's taken a few knocks in its past, I don't mind taking it out where I wouldn't take any of my other lanterns!

I have played around with a Coleman 214 that I picked up recently (for a tenner I think!) which does light quite quickly but I still prefer the Bialaddin.

In terms of the Petromax type, my Anchor works really well (with the rapid heat sealed off to prevent leakage!) but my Optimus 930 doesn't. I will be attempting to see if I can get it work correctly, but I've already done a lot to it for it to still not work properly.

Oddly enough, my Veritas 350 and Superb work really well (my memory suggests that I'm using Coleman 111 mantles on them) although having said that now, I've probably cursed them. They remind me of a cross between a Bialaddin and a Coleman but do need a long pre-heat!

If we could decide between us as to what would probably be the "best" lantern, it'd be nice to see if it could be prototyped! Kind of a bit of a pipe dream but I've seen stupider ideas on Kickstarter!

 

Tilley X246 ('Pork Pie and 1950 - 55 versions). Solid; reliable; easy to fettle; good light; few moving parts; run for ages on a full tank.

As I've said elsewhere, I've not had any trouble with the new vapourisers, and NOS are still available.

Tony

 

Tony, I don't disagree, I love the old 246's, I've still got my Grandma's old 246, which although it's not a Pork Pie, is just a fantastic lamp.

However, they are a right **** to pre-heat when it's windy and you don't have much shelter. After soldiering on with the Tilley, it was a huge relief to have the full length glass on the Bialaddin - makes pre-heating so much easier!