I finally met a bloke I have been talking with a lot about lamps. His collection is just mind blowing. Anyway, I digress. I had a 1928 Primus two burner roarer/heater that I wasn't really interested in as I'm not much into stoves. I managed to swap the Primus for these two Tilleys'. I hadn't realised that the first version was all brass except the enamelled hood. Blue writing on the first version globe. I hadn't seen blue writing before.
Those two actually look pretty good. Un-polished is nice. Perhaps you would consider posting them in the reference gallery instead? Especially before you do anything to them.
Lol, I know I make old collectors like you and others nervous. You can move it there if you like. I thought there were enough in there so didn't bother taking many photos as it's all been done before.
On the point of 'Pork Pie' X246s, one sold on Oz eBay for $370AUD plus post (yesterday). This the highest price I've seen for one of these here. Cheers Tony
The bloke I swapped with was well aware of the price Tony. I think that goes to show how much he regarded the Primus. The bloke has an amazing collection of stoves including an Austramax one and a Swift-Lite Handi in the box with manual.
Images are always welcome in the gallery. Helps build up a detailed reference of a model & any nuanced changes. I've known changes been picked up on long after the original post. One day someone may want to do research or write an article & be grateful for all the reference pics.
After reading a post by Bob, Lamp Doctor, elsewhere on CPL, it appears I may have made a mistake by stating this is version 1 & 2. It seems the first x246 came with a long and short bail arm so they are considered 1 & 2. So I guess the one pictured above on the left is actually version 3. The one on the right has a short bail arm but I don't know if it was considered version 1 or 2.
Version terminology is vexed... Version 1 with short bail; Version 1 with long bail; Version 2 etc is probably how I would put it, but Tilley didn't ever distinguish the X246s is their various variations... If you try too hard, you get into the problem of trying to distinguish between X246Bs that have one or two cage rings and with or without the ability to disengage the bail... Cheers Tony
Since it's two different lanterns, it's better that you make two new posts yourself just as Tony says. And the amount already posted in there has nothing to do with it, just as Ross says. We need as many pictures as possible to build a good reference section, and even if there already should be an exact match posted in there, the possibility is good that any new pictures show some new angles. Especially since many people just post one or two perhaps not so detailed pictures. Only way to overcome that lack is to gather as many different pics as we can.
Matty asked me in another post whether his lamps above have the original pumps. I'm happy to be corrected, but I believe that the right hand Tilley has the correct X246 'Pork Pie' pump. The pump on the left hand Pork Pie is either from a later X246 or another Tilley. Does it have writing on it? Tony
The reason for the numbering of these is historical. The Pork Pie lanterns were super rare when I sorted them out many years ago and I did not realise there were short and long handle versions of the first type. So that difference was missed. Your left lantern is type 2. Type 3 has the same tank and globe cage but is fitted with a brown enamell hood. Type 1 can be either long or short handle. The pump on your type 2 is wrong. All three versions used the same pump as on your type 1. ::Neil::
Neil, Thank you. No wonder they are rare, the bloke i got them off has half the worlds stock. I didn,t take many photo's of his Tilleys but I can assure you he has many. It was something else looking at so many different types that I never thought I would see in the flesh.
There are a lot more about now than there were 20 years ago. There were very few collectors out there and not much communication so I listed what I saw or had paper for. Tilley paper does not show the two handle types and they were rare lanterns compared to the legions of later lanterns. We have learnt a lot since then but some of the minor mistakes in the lists have survived. Anyway I am English and there have to be some quirky anomalies. ::Neil::
Neil, By your explanation it's easy to see why little mistakes have been made from time to time. I didn't realise that most of the collections began only 20 or so years ago. It's actually a number I have been told by a few collectors as to how long they have been collecting. Was, there something that happened 20 years ago to lift interest in collecting of lamps? A high profile sale or high profile celeb that mentioned they collect lamps etc?
The game started to gather pace around 1990. Up to then there were collectors of course but we were few and generally not aware of each other. Roger Price and I had been collecting since around 1965 and guys like Mick Emm and John Hine were just a year or two later prehaps. The problem was communication so connections were slow. I had only discovered another collector after 25 years of collecting. A few of us set up a display at a steam rally in 1991 where a group of about five guys showed pressure lamps at North Nibley. That generated a few more contacts and then I started to display at about 12 rallies a year from 1992 to 1998. Since then there was sporadic connections by letter and fax but the real boost was the internet. The game started in earnest around 2000 give or take a few years. I published the PLC in 2001 and that was sold through the Guild web site and we started to show people what there was and eBay gradually started to offer more and more for sale. I also made contact with American Coleman collectors around that time and with web and email the game expanded very quickly. We also made the mistake of sharing information so that more and more folk realised what an interesting and varied game it could be. So it was slow at first but the internet was the real boost and the last 20 years have seen the game go global. ::Neil:: You might find this interesting as well http://www.petromax.nl/Collectors/NeilMcRae/NeilMcRae.html Gives you aninsight into how I foud other guys. ::Neil::
It's my impression that there were quite a few lamp enthusiasts, all busily collecting away in complete isolation and without much (or even, any) knowledge of each other until the advent of the internet, perhaps 20 years ago... Edit: crossed with Neil... I started collecting (unknowingly) in 2000 when I saw two Tilley X246Bs in a junktique shop in Shropshire. I bought one and my friend later bought the other as a Christmas present. I stuck them in the loft (I think they're still there!) and forgot about them. A couple of years later, I discovered eBay and idly wondered if they sold Tilleys there. Well, yes they did and I then made the fatal error of buying an Optimus 200P from someone called 'Spiritburner' who, as it turned out, lived very close...
Neil, That was a facinating and enlightenng post. I suppose the progress of the internet pleased you as you could find more lamps. I suppose it must have hindered you as well as once the collections started in ernest, it would have increased the re-sale value of lamps and also made it more difficult for you because of competition.
I thought I may as well add a photo of the Primus I swapped just to give those interested a look at what was swapped for what. It is a Primus No 717.
Neil I'm interested to know when Jim Dick started collaborating with you, Mick Emm and others on his book. Cheers Tony
Matty and others - what a great thread!! I have only been collecting for a few years (main interest is Coleman lanterns)but have been lucky to have met several collectors at the local trash and treasure market where I do most of my hunting. Both started collecting around 20 years ago and said that period were the "glory years" as far as ease of collecting and quality of finds. Both have also mentioned numerous times how cheap lanterns were then and also mentioned lack of competition/lack of interest from others.The Coleman guy said it was a poor market back then if there wasn't at least 5 or 6 Colemans to select from... and this is a weekly market. As well as the usual Aussie 242's and 249's he said he would see at least one 236 every 4 to 6 weeks!!! Very interesting hearing everyones perspective. Cheers Peter
Peter, There is that now familiar "20 years" used to describe when people began collecting. Like you and including you, I have found the contributors to this topic to be insightful and and very helpful in helping a person new to lamps get a feel for how it all started.
