Cleaning, polishing and preserving.

Some recent posts both on here and the sister site set me thinking, so after a bit or internet searching I decided to put down a few thoughts.

Firstly, we are all collectors of lanterns and/or stoves, but merely calling ourselves collectors isn’t enough. Most of us are users of our chosen objects of desire and some of us could even be described as conservators or curators. But these titles: collectors, users, conservators and curators each come with a different set of motives and reasons, some of them mutually exclusive to a degree.

The first thing I would say is, that we have all done a great service to the preservation of our chosen objects. Just be collecting and looking after them we have potentially saved them from being lost, damaged, thrown away or even crushed. Now we own them, they stand at least an odds on chance of survival, at least for the most part.

That was the good news, now the not so good news. All of our prize lamps, lanterns and stoves are deteriorating. Even as I type, they are all suffering damage – some only by tiny amounts, others more rapidly, but make no mistake, all of these beautiful things we own are slowly degrading to some degree and there is very little we can do to prevent that. Time and entropy are working against us every second of every day.

If all we ever do is lightly dust our stoves and lanterns the damage is all but negligible but most of us want to do much more than sit and look at a dead object. We like to use our stoves and light our lanterns because that’s what they were designed for and that’s why we collect them. Some of us have very practical reasons for using our stuff like camping and hiking, while others like myself live in areas that are prone to power-cuts where paraffin lanterns can be very handy when the lights go out!

The brass, copper, aluminium and steel used in the construction of our ‘toys’ are all volatile, reactive metals and oxidisation will claim them in the end, unless we store them in an anaerobic chamber which, lets face it, probably won’t happen! Whichever method we choose, we will damage our objects each and every time we ‘take care’ of them and even more so when we use them. The use of acids and alkalines will cause damage. Polishing causes damage and worse, it can wear away surface details. Even ultrasonic cleaning which is probably the least destructive cleaning method I know about uses detergents and other chemicals in a water solution which will have an effect and that’s without any potential future discovery that ultrasonic cleaning has a detrimental effect on the material itself. In addition, every time we clean the surface, the oxidisation process begins again so even if we do use an ultrasonic cleaner, the metal ends up a few molecules thinner than it was. We should be as careful as possible and seek on the best techniques but even the most benign actions aren’t consequence free, lets not kid ourselves. Each time I use my buffing wheel I wince a little, particularly if I go near any knurling because I run the risk of smoothing off the surface. Buffing is better than acids because it is largely non chemical but much worse for stamped dates, embossed names and fine detailing. Each time I use a ‘cleaning product’ be it Brasso (heaven forbid!) vinegar, acetic acid, citric acid or anything else, I have caused irreparable damage, no matter how slight. And the fact is, I would bet a relatively large sum of money that we have all done this at least once or twice in our collecting lives.

BUT…. I want to light my lanterns and I like to use my stoves. I like finding old, damaged examples and bringing them back to life, even if it’s only for a limited time. And I’m not a museum curator. I’m not a conservator in any real sense and although I do my best to minimise any damage (unlike the guy who used rotary wire brushes to clean brass tanks and heat-resistant paint on a sandblasted Tilley hood!) my cleaning actions will inevitably hasten the demise of my objects.

The internet doesn’t help either. I looked on WikiHow and was appalled at the methods they suggest to clean brass. The V&A museum website is much better but there the emphasis is biased towards conserving and museum preservation as you’d expect. Look on YouTube and it’s a very mixed bag indeed, varying from the good all the way down to suggesting the use of rotary wire brushes, sandblasting and worse!

So, my message is, try to use the best fettling methods you can, but we should all be aware, none of us can enjoy and use our prized possessions without a little damage!

 

@ColinG

Colin I really enjoyed reading tour views on this subject. I once read where a collector considered himself a custodian of the lamps he owned. I respect that interpretation of himself.

As a custodian of 120 year old to 70 year old lamps, I feel it is my duty to care for the lamps and to help them survive another 70 or 120 years. Many that are left as found and shoved in a shed somewhere, wont have another 20 years left in them.

Coleman's and other lamps with the steel base plates are generally in need of some attention if the base plate is going to survive long enough for the next custodian to enjoy. Placing a lamp, with surface rust already on the base plate, in an attic or shed and forgetting about it, is somewhat irresponsible. The base plate should be attended to then stuck wherever it is to be placed.

In the end though, whomever owns the lamps are free to do with them as they like.

I have a conundrum at this very minute. I have decided to restore a Coleman 2E stove. The stove suitcase has lost all of its paint and was heavily surface rusted. The stoves original colour is a brown with maroon in it. I can't really define the colour properly.

My conundrum was: The stove has lost virtually all of its paint, it is rusty and it is only going to get worse and deteriorate rapidly (I live right on the water) if I don't intervene. If I do intervene, how can I restore this stove and get the paint colour anywhere near what the original looked like. You can't buy the colour in rattle cans.

So, if I don't get the colour correct or change the colour, am I going to be heckled by collectors that like original as much as possible. Many of those collectors believe a wipe over with a wet rag and leave it at that is the solution.

If I leave the thing as original as possible in my opinion that is to the great detriment of the stove.

Here are some photos of the stove after an all night soaking in full strength vinegar, just last night actually. You can see just how much paint is left, virtually none. I only placed the suitcase in the vinegar. The oven has quite a lot of paint left and I want to polish it to see if I can leave it in its original state.



In the photo's, you will notice I haven't done the lid of the suitcase part of the stove. The lid is indicative of how the soaked parts of the stove looked. Having said that, the soaked bits don't show very well in the photo's either. I can assure you, after a wipe they looked terrific.

I have now wiped down the soaked parts and etch primed them. Later, I will undercoat them. I think I will take some chips of the old paint to a paint shop and see if they can match the Coleman colour and I will use my compressor and spray gun to paint the stove.

If I can't get a colour to match, oh well, bad luck. I will just do the best I can and at least the stove is protected from the elements and may last another 80 years.

The corrugated plate you see is a shelf for the oven.

 

A good auto shop should be able to match your paint colour and present it to you in a 'rattle can'.

 

I didn't actually know paint shops could do that, it's a great service of you can't find the exact colour.

Have you heard of using electrolysis to strip paint and rust from steel objects? You need a battery charger to do it and the results look almost like magic to me! You have to be careful not to leave the item too long but basically the process pushes anything that isn't iron/steel off the surface so you are left with bright shiny metal when it's complete. I'm currently looking for a moderately priced charger that I can use to strip the paint and rust off my Enders 9061D and Optimus 111 stoves. It might be useful for Coleman lamp tanks too but you might need to protect the inside and it could potentially open up the joints - I'm not sure about that.

 

Absolutely not, Matty.

Logically, the original finish is gone and there's no getting it back. It follows, then, that the best you (or any of us) can do is to restore it to as near original condition as possible, given we're 80-90 years down the line. As Trevor suggests, take the stove case to a decent motor factor (as they're called over here) and they should be able to mix you up a aerosol can of the correct colour. This is one I had made up just last week to match a Bialaddin tank I took in as a sample:-



It cost £8.75 - Colin's probably fainted at the expense - and a 400ml can of etch primer was £7.24. The two cans came to £19.19 including VAT at 20%... (ambulance, please, for Mr G!!)

 

I feel faint... bring me some whiskey, quick! £8:75 isn't so bad for a bespoke colour actually so I'll try not to keel over just yet. I'm paying £8:99 for scan of drab olive green and that's not colour mtched at all so £8:75 is a bargain!

Right, I need to lay down now.... all this high finance drains me *swoon*

 

@David Shouksmith

Wow, that is interesting. To be honest, I don't think the price isn't too bad considering the service you are receiving. They have gone to the trouble of analysing your paint chip, creating a formula then putting it a rattle can! Not too shabby at all.

I have never heard of the smash repair (as we call them here) business's doing such a service. Having said that, it may just be another thing I am oblivious to. I do think hardware stores or paint shops that deal with tradesmen have the ability to analyse your paint chip and get a colour match. I wasn't aware that they could put it in a rattle can, I've only ever known it to be in a standard paint tin. (Don't forget the oblivious word)

If I can get an exact colour match, I'd probably go the whole hog and rub the oven back and do it as well.

I do think these old appliances must have had the paint baked on? I can see where I respray this stove and the moment I unfold the legs, it will take the paint off.

@shagratork

Trevor,

Thanks for the suggestion. I did think it was possible you could get old formulas matched these days, I will see how I go.

@ColinG

Colin, I am really comfortable with how I use vinegar. It works , is easy to do and has a hidden advantage as it not only removes old rust but it seems to kill rust too.

There are a lot of half folds on this stove that I have no hope of getting into properly to either remove junk or as a rust converter, etch primer or any protective covering. If I am correct and the vinegar kills the rust, it is a really good option.

Why I think vinegar kills rust is because in my experience, any areas of true rust, not just surface rust, turn black. I live right on the water (salt) and I have actually been amazed that bits and pieces that I have put into vinegar, spanners etc, they have never commenced to rust again. Over time I'm sure they will if they are left without plating or having some sort of sealer applied.

I can tell you, I am really impressed with the quality of steel Coleman used. Steel must have had a different formula back in the day. This suitcase stove as you blokes can see, the paint has been gone for a long time yet serious rust hasn't set in. Having said that, the front panel of the stove that has the handle on it, is a bit pitted.

 

Whilst researching around colour codes, I came across this:-

The Colour Matching Process | Car colour services

...which proved to be an interesting (and surprising) read. Who knew matching the exact paint shade on your car was so complicated? Applying this to us respraying our lamp parts, it shows there's no real point in getting stressed about exact colour matches - near enough is clearly good enough. I know for a fact wartime Vapalux paint drifted in shade even when new and the intervening 60-70-odd years will have only increased the variation...

 

Yes, interesting.

Funny thing. I had a mate over today and I was bemoaning how was I to match the colour. He walked over to his car, pulled out his jack and bugger me dead, it looked almost the same colour. It was a Toyota jack.

I wonder if using 2pack paint will solve my concerns of the paint being chipped off by the folding lags as they slide back and forth?

Has anyone used 2 Pack paint? I can't say I ever have so I don't know its true capabilities. I have heard it dries a lot harder than normal paint.

 

Also, you can subtly change a colour by changing the colour of the first coats and varying the last one. For example, on my red Bialaddin the first can I used clearly wasn't correct and was too cherry but when I used the closer red it worked perfectly... but when I sprayed the second one I used the closer colour on it's own and the two now look very slightly different!

By the way, I'm changing my name on CPL to Leonardo! da Vinci!!

 

No wonder you drink whiskey and not whisky then Colin. Shame on you!

 

Some Irish whiskey is excellent - or maybe Colin was drinking Kentucky bourbon whiskey.

 

Jean, I can only apologise! I think we still have some Jura whisky in the cupboard so I'll drink a toast tonight to help me remember in future!

 

Matty, I've used 2-pack paints. Applied with compressed air-assisted sprayer.
These 2-Ks usually are epoxy, polyurethane or acrylic-based. They are not necessarily harder than single packs.
They cure by chemical reaction with the hardener, and a great faster than single packs. While single packs may seem dry and hard after some air-drying, they're not completely cured, even after a week or two. This makes them less resistant to solvents and fuels.
While it may seem good to have a hard surface, I'll suggest that it might be better to have a tough, resilient or flexible paint coat that'll resist flexing better. Hard paint coats are usually more brittle by comparison and could get chipped quite easily when your parts are subjected to rough handling.

 

@MYN

Thanks for your reply. I was interested in what you said and it makes sense to me. It is most probable that I don't give single pack paint sufficient time to air cure before I coat it with lacquer. I will be more alert to that in the future.

 

Just to cheer us all up. Cellulose paint should be left for 4 WEEKS before you cut,polish cover with lacquer etc. Technically single pack paints dry, not cure. Most likely the reason for the 4 week wait. Good reason to wait for SWMBO. to go on a long shopping trip, to secure the use of the oven. Cook at 100 c for 1hr min.

 

@GAVIN W

Thanks for the reply.

Is it possible to bake standard acrylic paint to dry?

 

Bake is probably not the best description. 35/40 c max 30/40 mins. Had best results with hair dryer on medium, have to keep it moving. Difficult to watch for the owner of the drier and keep it moving

 

George (@kerophile, a long-time Member of CCS, and also here), has provided very good advice (on stove restoration) that is relevant to this discussion:

Stove restoration. Parts 1 to 4

Cheers

Tony

 

Nice thread over at CCS, @Tony Press .

To my knowledge(far from comprehensive, though), a merely dried paint coat will not be fuel or solvent resistant. It will soften or dissolve again when subjected to solvents like those used in that paint.
They need to get cured(with or without heat assistance) in order to be fuel resistant.
Alkyd paints, particularly the more durable ones, could take a whole month to cure by air slowly penetrating and cross-linking its molecular structure. Baking does little to help cure these alkyds thoroughly. Time and patience are best.
Most 2-component paints would negate the necessity of baking to get to the desired results. Be aware of those toxic chemicals, i.e. bisphenol A, B, polyamines, Polyamides, isocyanates, etc. ( all the chemicals are ok with me, not necessarily so to others).

 

@MYN

Besides inherent impatience, that’s why I use “baking” to cure my (automotive) paint.

Cheers

Tony

 

@MYN

I gave up baking (under orders) a couple of years ago. I'd put a Tilley fount in the oven at what ever the paint instructions said to do. The said oven, was the oven in the kitchen.

Whilst the Tilley was baking merrily away, the family sat down to some lunch. Halfway through a bite of a sausage sanga, there was a boom and bang. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a flames come out of the oven then die down. The flames were followed by a grey smoke then darker smoke.

Most of the family went into self survival mode: Drop & Roll.

I leapt to the rescue, albeit half heartedly, not knowing exactly what to expect or do. I did have the half a sausage sanga still in my hand which for a fleeting second I thought, if nothing else I could throw it at the carnage.

Arriving at the oven, I saw a once white fount looking pretty much toasted. It had flames coming out of the fuel hole and the bung hole in the middle top of the fount.

Seeing no real urgent need to throw my half eaten sausage sanga either at the fount or in the bin I proceeded to finish it whilst waiting for the flames to die out.

I still occasionally wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering just what went wrong. I had soaked the fount in vinegar and rinsed it out. I never, ever suspected fumes would build up in the tank and eventually ignite. I'll give you a tip - either did the rest of the family at the sausage sanga luncheon.

I'm still in disbelief at some of the words I heard in the immediate aftermath of the now infamous, Sunday Bloody Sunday Inferno. I've been around the block a bit and have heard sailors and wharfies at their very best using blue language. The said wharfies and sailors were mere amateurs compared to what I heard that day.

 

Fahrenheit V Celsius?

Cheers

Tony

 

I love your 'The Oven Inferno' story and it makes me realize how lucky I was with my kitchen oven 'baking' shenanigans a few weeks ago. I now have a professional oven to play with and I wash my tanks out before baking but even so, it's a risk!

GSR or George's Stove Restorer is my constant fettling companion and something I use when refurbishing all my lamps and stoves. It's gentle enough not to wreck the brass surface yet efficient at removing the oxidation. I don't use it on everything though, brass dome headed screws I buff on the polishing wheel having screwed them into a wooden jig first so I don't burn my fingers!

 

Glad you kept the snag sanga, explaining to the missus can be quite a chore and survival rations may be needed..... l hope you had some sauce with it .......

 

@Matty,
That must be quite some day. I've had my share of such mishaps too, only without the company of anyone who might give orders.
To be absolutely sure that there's no fuel residues in the fount, acetic acid is not going to do. Even acetone or alcohols are no guarantees for this.
You'll need the fount to be soaked in alkaline degreasing cleaner and a post cleaning rinse with water to flush out all fuel and organic matter which would have already been saponified and water soluble by then.
Otherwise, pour in some DOT3 or 4 brake fluid(non-silicone type), soak and wet all internal surface, leave for 5 minutes, pour out and rinse with plenty of clean water. Brake fluid is not an oil but it is soluble or miscible in kerosene, gasoline or any other liquid fuels and can solubilize any oils or fuels in the fount. It is also water soluble. I've cleaned my lubricating oil-drenched hands with brake fluid and then wash with tap water afterwards. Works better than any detergents or soap.(I'm not the least bit bothered by the safety warnings and cautions on the label in this case).

 

@Tony Press ,
If you are using a 2-pack or 2-K paint, you don't actually need to bake to cure it.
Auto refinishing shops do it all the time.
Curing paints without heating only takes a day or two. Three or four days just to be on the safe side.

 

@ColinG

Colin,

I must stop be lazy and make such a jig while I still have a few stumps of fingers to play with.

@AussiePete

Pete,

I'm not much of a sauce man myself. Having said that, I've certainly 'got on the sauce' a few times.

@MYN,

Now you tell me!

 

Sure @Matty.
I'm assuming you meant vinegar when you mentioned acetic acid, not 'glacial' or pure acetic acid. The latter would work on the fuel residues of course(also highly corrosive and reactive). I don't think anyone of us here would be able to obtain that easily or legally.

 

Myn,

yes, vinegar.