Having been it home now for a good month, I’ve sorted the garden & most of the jobs my other half had for me. So I’ve started to look at a bit of fettling. In my collection I’ve a few chrome tilley’s, an Anchor clone and a veritas superb, all of which are looking a bit tired, so my question is what do you all use to clean and polish these founts without removing the chrome?
Hi @malcolm race Usually the fount’s are nickel plated and the Tilleys are speculum plate, although there maybe chrome plated ones too. I have of late been using oven cleaner, with the appropriate gloves and eye protection, on my founts. The spray on oven cleaner has proven to be very effective in getting the initial crud and verdigris off. After a thorough rinse and inspection I use Mother Mag Cleaner, bought from a auto shop, to bring the fount back to the highest shine possible that the original finish will allow. A good alternative to Mothers and brings good results is the following. I try to avoid any scouring pads or scratching cloths or steel wool. Only in extreme cases do I use 0000 grade steel wool with Mothers or Autosol to gently remove an offending blemish. It’s my personal preference not to use any buffing wheels or mechanical polishing methods as I’m worried about burning the plating or excessively wearing the plating off. Other lampies however do use these methods with excellent results. The above are my preferences and other lampies have equally good results with their different preferred processes. Hope this helps. Cheers Pete
Cheers Pete, Don’t think we have mothers over here, but we should have the autosol, so I’ll give it a whirl. I have a buffer that I use on brass, but thought it would be too harsh. Thanks for the info Malcolm
I bought some Mother's Mag on eBay here in the UK and its extremely good! I've also use a buffer sometimes but it's very easy to wear away nickel playing particularly. Crome is harder and less prone to being worn away
One thing I use is caution. I'm probably in a different situation to you as I have lamps from a lot of manufacturers from around the world and telling what is actually on the fount can be challenging sometimes. A lot of Americans use the term nickle as a generic term for anything silver and shining. I don't blame them, I use the term chrome as a general term. I grew up with chrome wheels and chrome bumper bars etc. I have found many founts from America aren't in fact nickel as collectors think they are chrome. If you have a fount that the finish flakes or peels then it is almost certainly chrome - not nickel. Whether or not all the Petromax clone manufacturers used nickel or chrome, I have no idea. I did get a hint as to how to tell after buying some Mothers Mag & Aluminium Polish that Colin mentions. It states that if you are using the polish and the polish doesn't turn black, stop using it immediately. That test will tell you you have chrome, not nickel, on your fount. Do not use the Mag & Aluminium cleaner on chrome. If you have a fount that has 100 years of grime build up, mostly dust that has formed a hard barrier, soak the fount in full strength vinegar for 10 minutes and rinse under running tape water. Use a soft nylon brush or pad or even 0000 steel wool and lightly rub if needed. You will be amazed at how the fount comes up with virtually no effort.
Thanks Matty, Some good advice there, by the sound of it. I too was brought up with chrome bumper’s etc, so do tend to call all things shiny chrome. The bit about the cloth turning black is good to know. cheers Malcolm
Buffer is excellent if used properly! I polished this hat yesterday, but brass is a bit more forgiving than plating. Always starts with Ketchup, it's my secret to get rid of soot and oxidation before polishing
Ketchup, I’ll try that, I’ve used vinegar on brass and that works so I guess ketchup has it in anyway and will stay put a while too to do it’s work. Nice job though Krisse
The chrome or nickel finish quality, depending on manufacturer can be massive. I would think Coleman have the best quality plating of any company I have lamps of. Coleman not only plated their own product but would plate any product from any business or for the public up until 1919. They were professionals. Nulite (National Stamping & Electric Works) and Akron were generally abysmal. Then you had all ports inbetween. American Gas Machine were very good quality Nagel Chase did good and bad work.
Buffing wheels are dangerous on any plating. They work pretty fast and there's a tendency that the plating could be removed too much before you realize it. They're great on bare metal though.
@Krisse Ketchup ..... that’s a new one, obviously it works well. The viscosity would help hold in place like a paste. Thank you for sharing. It’s great on pies and sausages too. Cheers Pete
I concur with @MYN It is a very bad idea to use buffing wheels on chrome or nickle. One lapse of concentration, one thin spot - it is ruined.
Thanks guys, I knew I dare’nt use the buffer, but I’ll give your other surgestions a try, including the ketchup. I have a couple of wasters I can practice on. Cheers Malcolm
I think people may think I have a share in a vinegar company because I push it that much. I simply cannot understand what is so hard about using it. It is cheap, it can be used over and over again. By keeping it in a sealed bucket it is always convenient, can't evaporate and then if used properly can produce amazing results on surfaces ranging from paint, plating - nickle, chrome, whatever Tilley used, brass, it converts and kills rust, breaks down carbon and grease/oil on burners and puts your garbage out of a night. (just seeing if you were paying attention) Here in Australia, 6 litres will cost you less than $4. a Bucket may cost you a tenner at Bunnings - one with a lid. One of your local shops may give you one. Here is a Nulite fount I did today. Founts do not come with a tougher grime coating on them. The photos are taken indoors at night. Please don't think the reflections on the tank are brass. It is reflecting from the table surface. The fount looks better in real life. Well, I did it tonight actually after spending all day - again - further rearranging stuff in my garage. I looked up and saw the lamp hanging there and the fact it had a 100 year old crusted on dirt barrier made me want to show the power of vinegar. I placed the fount in the vinegar. I use a vinegar bottle I have emptied, fill it with water and use it as a weight to keep the fount submerged. I took note of the time and 20 minutes later I took the fount out of the vinegar, went to the garage sink and under running water used a nylon brush to move and rinse away the grime. Just for good measure, I ran a very quick, light rub with Mothers Mag polish and here are the results. I did want to say that I tried the Mothers Mag polish on a part of the stem that had not been in the vinegar. The polish could not remove the grime, not even close to removing it, I may as well not have done it. 30 minutes after I first put this fount in the vinegar - including the Mag polish, you have these results. No rocket science, not many brain cells used at all. If you leave a plated surface in vinegar over night, you are going to have problems, especially if the plating is thin. Leaving the fount in vinegar for 20 minutes with a starting surface that I had, it would have taken the vinegar 15 minutes to get to the plating. I've thrown badly rusted steel parts in vinegar and left it for 4 or 5 days sometimes. I simply use a brass wire brush under running water and bob is most definitely your uncle. Really dirty brass burners, I've left for a couple of days and just brushed off. Yeah, the copper will leach a bit but a brush or polish removes that. If you have tarnish on any plated surface or plain brass 15 to 20 minute soak, a rinse and you are ready to start polishing. It makes polishing brass so much easier, perhaps by a factor of 3.
I have recently been using citric acid, 50g per 500ml of warm water. You still need to buff it after but it quickly removes the black crud from brass burners.
Vinegar is actually one of best and safest liquid to be used for the removal of rust, tarnish and oxidation on a parts which are old and those that you can't afford to ruin. Its safe, natural and consumable too. Unlike what's usual with strong mineral acids(hydrochloric, sulphuric, etc), you don't need to worry about flash rust when cleaning with vinegar. A somewhat passivated surface on steel/iron is formed instead. Citric acid is similar, perhaps a little stronger. Its usually somewhat more expensive(depending on which source you're buying from). As with vinegar, its quite safe on most items. It removes rust down to bare metal and doesn't attack steel to any appreciable degree.
@MYN After I posted my last post it dawned on me I had forgotten to mention exactly what you said in regards to the safety of using vinegar both to oneself and the environment. Anytime you are using a product that you can drink, it makes sense the safety factor plus its ability to produce the best of results is another perfect reason why vinegar is the perfect solution to use. No gloves, breathing apparatus or eye safety ware are needed. Another thing I forgot to mention is, if you have been soaking brass parts, because you are using the vinegar repeatedly it becomes a bit like a brass plating solution. The more times you use the vinegar to soak brass parts the stronger the brass solution becomes. Once you have cleaned all the rust from steel parts, they will begin to get surface rust on them almost immediately. After rinsing the steel parts and you are happy with the results, dropping the steel parts back into the used vinegar solution for a couple of hours, the steel bits get a light coating of brass over them, sometimes barely noticeable. When you remove the steel bits from the solution, you just rinse under running water and wipe dry, don't use brushes, just rinse. The coating stops the surface rust from forming on your steel parts and keeps them looking good. Think steel cages, bail arms even hoods that have lost their plated finish etc. I have two buckets of vinegar, one for steel or plated parts and one for brass parts. I also have a couple of ice cream tubs that I use when just wanting to clean up small parts or a single burner etc.
@Gary Waller Yep, good stuff. Soaking burners in vinegar also helps break up the carbon within the burner and a cigar wire brush does the rest Before polishing any brass that has oxide on it, it is a great idea to soak the part in vinegar for 20 minutes or so. You then just use a nylon brush and wash the oxide away. Because there is far less oxide to deal with, your polishing pad or rag or whatever it is you are using, be it bench polisher or by hand, doesn't get fouled up and of course, you don't have to remove the oxide to get to fresh brass because it is down the sink. That 20 minute soak before polishing makes a massive difference - depending on the amount of oxide/patina you had to start with.
I've wondered if some collectors reading this topic will expect me to announce that vinegar walks on water next
@Matty Hi Matty, were did you get your cheap vinegar from. And yes, it is good stuff for many things. Can't see it walking on water though Cheers Michael
Micheal. I pay $1.20 Australian for no name brand 2 litre bottles from my local grocery shop. I do sometimes empty out the heavy stuff that settles on the bottom of whatever container you store used vinegar in. I just tip the vinegar into another container until I get to the crud on the bottom then dispose of the crud and return the vinegar to its original container. Vinegar that you use for soaking brass object will go a dark brown. Once it is that colour it will tend to *plate steel parts with a layer of brass. I have used that method many times to keep rust from forming on now clean steel. So, don't think you need to throw it out when it gets nasty looking. Ridding the crud and perhaps tipping a fresh bottle of vinegar in is the cheapest and safest way I can imagine that brings incredible results. *I said the dark brown solution will tend to plate steel. You have to be aware to not leave plated parts in the vinegar for too long otherwise it will leave a brass layer on whatever it is you have left for too long. It would be best advised to use a fresher or even new bucket of vinegar if you just want to rid the plated surface of minor grime. My example above, seriously, you couldn't find a worse example of grime. Leaving my tank in that solution for 20 minutes was never going to be enough time to harm my surface because initially, the vinegar can't access the plating until it dissolves the grime.
Hi Matty Thanks for that. I did try to buy some vinegar the other day but it was all sold out, which iis amazing as there is always heaps. I also use copper sulphate ( buy from garden shop) to coat steel in a thin copper film to prevent rust. Just dissolve the CuSO4 in water and dip steel parts in. Also good if you want to scribe the steel for further work. Cheers Michael
Michael, So just dipping, you don't need to apply a current? Both @AussiePete and I are experimenting with nickel plating. I think buying the copper sulphate and using it to plate to steel bits would be more controlled than using brassy vinegar. You can make your own copper solution by the same process as making nickel solution. A copper anode, copper cathode placed in some vinegar with a current added. I might just do that. Having said that, if copper sulphate is cheap, I suppose it would be a little easier. Not that there is much work involved creating your own.
Matty, Yes, no electricity required, just dip. I too am looking into nickel plating and looking at flash copper plating prior to the nickel, however the copper acetate solution is created by dissolving copper in a solution of equal parts vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. Interestingly this creates an acid that will dissolve almost all metals, which is amazing when you think it is made from household ingredients. Not sure about using copper sulphate as an electrolyte for copper plating, I belive copper acetate is best. In saying that though I have read that the Caswell kits use nickel sulphate for their electrolyte and not nickel acetate. Go figure???. Could be wrong, it's just what I read on the interweb. Cheers Michael
Michael, I am no expert and I may be off the mark but I *think* copper acetate is what is created when you use copper sulphate and dissolve it into a solution. That is one way of creating copper acetate, which is of course is the plating material. I took 18 months and studied the various ways people go about making nickel acetate and then their methods of plating. I have had two episodes where I have bought 99+% pure nickel only to find that when I am converting the nickel to nickel acetate the lying, cheating dogs that sold me the 'pure' nickel were just that, lying, cheating dogs. I've taken a back step to catch my breath so I can renew my enthusiasm and recover from the bitter disappointment of both episodes. The second lot really upset me because I spent time communicating with the seller to try and guarantee myself a repeat of the first time would not happen again. I have 2 litres of nickel acetate but have had to dispose of about 40 litres of what was meant to be nickel acetate but because of a high copper content 'pure nickel' two batches of what was supposed to be nickel acetate have been ruined.
