I need help identifying this lamp. Most likely a frankenlamp. I'd like to at least know what lamp the individual parts came from. The burner and air tube looks similar to Coleman's Model N. Although there aren't any markings or stamps to be found on it. The fount and handle looks similar to a Sunshine Safety in Terry's site. Again, no marks on the usual places (wheel, handle, and fount top plate) Any clues?
The base certainly looks like a Sunshine safety but this looks like a complete and original Coleman model 3 reading lamp. Can you do a shot of the burner casting with the shade carrier removed please. Pretty sure it is a Coleman burner but the shape will tell if I can see it please. ::Neil::
Thanks, Mackburner Here are some more pictures of the burner and the other parts. On these pics, it's fitted with the black handle which was also given to me with the lamp.
Hi Neil, 100% Coleman on the burner or not? and is it a Model N? If it is, I'd like to find the correct fount to go with the burner. Thanks
OK now I know what you have. This is a complete and original Coleman model DT which has the N type burner. Same lamp with a tip cleaner is model DTM. Not sure of a date but this image is from a 1924 parts list. ::Neil::
Thanks, Neil That looks like it! I wasn't even aware of that model and it's not listed in Terry's site. Here I was thinking this was a frankenlamp and was ready to find a different fount. Though I'm curious about the lack of "coleman" markings. Was that typical?
I am not sure but I think this was catalogued as model 3. Actually that model was slightly different but they did modify stuff and use the same numbers so perhaps this should be called a late model 3 Reading lamp. Yes for early stuff it is common for there to be little or no marking. No problem here though as all the parts are uniquely Coleman. Nice find for sure. ::Neil::
I've looked through all the catalogs in Old, Dirty Coleman Papers and can't find anything about the Model 3 reading lamp. Only reference to a "No. 3" was in 1907 categorized under "Lighting Fixtures, Hollow Wire", which I think is a completely different lamp that is a hanging lamp of some type... Where can I find a copy of the catalog that featured the model 3 reading lamp?
You won't find it in a catalogue. I have here a copy of the complete Coleman archive in Wichita. Herb Ebendof gave the Guild copies of everything he had. Some of it is small flyers or notes and gives some info that is not in any catalogues. Makes the game difficult. In this case model 3 is confusing. You say a hollow wire lamp so that is one. In 1928 Coleman model 3 is a radiant heater and here around 1908 - 1915 we have a model 3 reading lamp so that makes three products with the same number. I think that this model 3 is actually a mod of model 35 Ker-O-Lite and your example a further mod of that lamp. I can't be sure exactly what model it was sold as but I do know from the paper that they were sold like that so it is complete and original. Anyway here is the paper I have showing number 3 reading lamp. ::Neil::
Looks to be a closer match to the "Model DT" The valve wheel being at the top on the Model 3 reading lamp makes that model seem less of a match.
Well yes I agree. That last image of model 3 is the earlier one which I believe is a gasoline version of AVK. These lamps are kinda confusing and because they don't appear in catalogues it is hard to know exactly what they were sold as. We have to remember that the Coleman archive includes stuff that was internal and not issued to the public either as catalogue or flyer and the model numbers may never have been used when the lamps were sold. Model DT for instance was never sold as such as far as I know. Quite what it was sold as I don't know. No question in my mind that is what you have though. On a related matter that tank, which people knew was used by Coleman, is the reason that for years it was assumed that the Sunshine Safety lamp was Coleman made. ::Neil::
Yes, confusing... So, if I get it: 1916 “N” type burners appeared 1918 Ker-O-Lite – can be purchased as Kerosene or Gasoline. The Gasoline version had the non-turban fount…?? 1920 AVK - a kerosene lamp. Gasoline version was called Model 3 and had the non-turban Armco fount. 1924 Model DT appeared but possibly sold as a Model 3 because it resembled the Model 3 from the 1920 Model DT was a mix of parts from the gasoline version of AVK (fount) and Model N or M (burners) ????? I’ve read that the since the “turban” founts were prone to stress cracks, they were phased out by the Armco founts, which had straighter sides but still used the same style bell cover.
Also, At about 1917 was when Coleman began introducing the Quicklite lamps...I'm assuming this was also when they began eliminating the torch lighting lamps? Then by 1920, about half of their lamps were the Quicklite-ing kind. So this DT model sounds like a transitional model as a way of getting rid of surplus parts ("N" or "M" burners & Armco founts). They were making way for the Quicklite lamps. The lamp I have is a frankenlamp but one that was produced by Coleman. I don't know if my story is correct but that's what the story seems like to me...
First I have heard about stress cracks in turban founts. I think it is highly unlikely that Coleman phased them out for that reason. Stress cracks are time related. Takes years for them to appear and Coleman dropped the turban long before they might have become a problem. Also if they were prone to stress I would have seen some and I havn't. Your take is about as good as any I have heard. Mind you I don't like speculation so I prefer to say it was a confusing time and I just don't know. I want a time machine. ::Neil::
