Poll - discussion of current on-line auctions...

Postage won't be cheap on those, although import duty shouldn't be an issue. You may still get hit with a handling charge though - around £9 it was for me last time.

Shipping and handling, import duty and handling charge literally doubled the total cost of the last item I got from North America - a £75 item became £150 before delivery. I'll not be doing that again...

 

Been on off site today reading all the posts on this thread and I can see christers point about handing a nice find on ebay to someone on a plate after spending lots of time searching for it. Well maybe that person feels same as you do and may well keep it to themselves as well
How often do you find these gems then I don't seem to find them but I only go on ebay 10\20 minutes a day not got the time or inclination to do so. It may not happen Christer sometimes its easier to find reasons not to do something then look for benefits of doing it.
If you look at the members list we have only 57 have a post score of over 100 most people come here and have no input at all so how likely is it to happen ??

Some will see posting auctions as a quick way to build a post score rating that would be bad but then some members we have do the same thing now with on word or one line posts of no content what so ever.

If a auction is posted on here for advice\to discuss details or originality bad treatment hostile seller or dodgy bidding that's what I would like to see but you already figured that out Christer I can see that

Many of the posts on this thread seem to be in favour of the change yet the vote is fairly even that seems weird till you consider members on here are some of those dodgy sellers or involed in the bidding up that goes on ebay then it makes sense.

If nothing else this thread\poll has got people posting and its been good to see it

cheers pete

 

As I mentioned earlier I'm toward the yes side at the moment...

I don't know about anyone else here, but as soon as I see an item on eBay I decide a) how much I want it and b) how much I'm willing to pay. Obviously within reason b is dependent on a.

Once it goes over what I'm willing to pay I'll just wait for the next one...

Whether the auction appears on here or not won't affect what I'm willing to pay, it may make it a little more likely to nudge the price over my self imposed limit but then again it might not. The point is I can't see myself being too upset about it...

 

Many times I search at the auctions sites not only to buy but to discover new things and when I find a new one, I'd like to know more about it. It was useful at BBL at least for me, but if to post just the pics from the auction is allowed it would be enough for me.

On another hand, I have to say I voted for yes, but thinking on the comments here, perhaps is better for the site health somebody asking advice using PT than many members getting ungry because of a reavealed auction.

Juan

 

My vote (earlier on, when this topic was started) is a "don't care" as I try to stay away from ebay as much as possible.
I have seen some of the posts with ebay links provided by fellow members (both on CPL & CCS). I don't think they need to post these to get a higher posts count, as it is far easier and faster to just post a "WOW!" or "Nice!" comment to anything posted in the S.R.G./L.R.G or Action sections etc.
I think most of the time members posted these links was to help other members. If one already has the stove or lantern in the link or the item does not fit in ones own collection, then why not show it to other members who might be on the look-out for "just that one"?
Of course I do think it's a good idea to contact a seller and ask if his photo's can be used in the reference section but I don't mind this happening during or after the auction.

Just my 2 €cents!

Best regards all,

Wim

 

Maybe, but one of my recent threads concerning a listing for an item being sold in England but apparently in an American member's collection and the abusive replies I'd had from the seller was put into quarantine until the auction ended.

It was, in no way, a thread designed merely to inform other members that an item was up for auction, rather to illustrate a dubious listing practice by ignorant and unpleasant sellers who were breaching copyright by stealing and publishing material taken from Terry Marsh's site.

After intervention by the American member himself, the listing was changed and I haven't noticed any further instances.

So now I'm wondering why that thread wasn't seen as, overall, a benefit to the lamping community i.e. the membership in general, the American collector in particular and Terry Marsh, a highly regarded and well-respected contributor to our hobby...

 

I guess the problem I see is that publicizing auctions for rare and collectable lamps will just drive the prices up higher which I guess most of us don't want to see.

Plus why should someone who has taken the time and effort to find and research and auction with a collectable lamp lose out to someone with deeper pockets who just followed a link from this forum.

 

Perhaps it's time the price of rare and collectible lamps did go up, to be honest I can't believe how cheaply some of these lamps go for,compare it with Dinky toys, fishing reels,Meccano, Scalextric from the same period in time and they are way behind. A new Tilley would probably cost £100.00 and you could probably buy four old ones for the same money but they would be far superior in quality.

 

The prices of the old stuff like Dinky toys etc has gone up due to speculation - why should the price of old lamps go up to suit people that buy just to make money? Why ruin it for people to whom it's a hobby?

How many of us here are that affluent really? (No I don't actually want to know!)

 

The price of stuff has gone up due to demand,a lot of it has already been snapped up by collectors so there's Less of it about, how many people have got multiples of the same item, I think I have got about six red x246b lanterns, why would I need that many? How many people have got three or more SDR lanterns? Nobody knows the answer for sure it's just the way we are I suppose. Some stuff has bottomed out because the people that wanted it have now got what they wanted so the demand is not so high.

 

There's no point saying it's a hobby, it's collecting. Imagine saying I like to buy Rembrandts but people are buying them to sell on and spoiling my hobby.

 

Maybe for you yes, but for myself and others, the joy is in fettling and getting lanterns running. I don't collect lanterns to have them in a line and all pretty gathering dust!

Strikes me that the only ones that want the prices high are those that want to sell and make a profit... If you want to collect you don't want high prices do you?! There's the other side to high prices too - do you want similar legislation around the sale of classic lanterns to that which exists for expensive art works etc to "stop tax evasion or money laundering"?!

If prices were high, do you think we'd have so many fantastic examples in the reference gallery? We'd also think twice about taking them into the open or lighting them. And as for using them night fishing?!!!

Leave well alone and let the prices take care of themselves.

 

This is always a hard call. Prices have risen beyond belief when I think back to what they sold for 30 years ago. Back then I was not aware of any other collectors of this stuff and I dare say most old timers like me would say more or less the same. In that last 30 years people like me have not only collected lots of lamps but also learnt about them and through the internet shown other people what there might be out there. This spread of informnation has informned a lot of people and some of them have started to collect lamps. I guess there are lot of you here who became collectors in the last ten years or so. This is good because more preservation is happening. So there are far more collectors out there now and that fact alone is going to hike prices. Ebay has also played a part by showing me and others new and strange lamps which have added to the basic knowledge but also allowed people to buy lamps from other countries with ease. So it is a two edged sword because high prices mean more dealers will offer interesting and valuable items for sale which is good because we get to see and preserve a greater variety but then this activity also tends to set ever increasing prices.

So advertising a sale on a site like this may make finding things easier but enough people will be searching anyway for that to be of lesser importance although it might be argued that doing so will encourage more bidders which can only result in higher prices. However I don't think it would make much difference. What might happen is that some members here could post saying "I am bidding for this so leave it alone please" I am not so sure that would work simply because there are too many avid collectors here but it certainly used to happen when the circle of collectors was much smaller. That of course only helps the buyers and ebay seem to have been well aware of this because they have tried to aid the sellers by withholding the identities of bidders. Allowing posts here might circumvent this and I am not sure if that would be a good thing or not.

I seem to be sitting on the fence here. On balance I tend to prefer to leave things alone. The site works fine as it is so maybe it does not need fixing. On the other hand I would not mind the change either. ::Neil::

 

It wouldn't work for me - I'd very likely take the view, 'Well, (insert expletive of your choice here) you, so am I'. How could anyone be so arrogant as to think they have first dibs on anything?

In reality, I suspect not. I am given to understand that your anonymised eBay identity stays the same. Evidence for this is that immediately after I'd bought a lantern via ebay, another member here PT'd me to ask if I'd just bought the 'such and such lantern for £***'. He told me that my bids always come up with the same identity - x***x or whatever it is - alongside...

 

Nowadays the other bidders ID is hidden on ebay so another member may well be bidding already & then be perceived as a cad if they end up 'winning' it.

If absolute freedom for posting auction links is decided against it could be possible to allow auction alerts for fraudulent sellers or seemingly rare items that are not as good as they appear. Tough call for the latter as a knowledgeable buyer may still want it & be aware of it's 'flaws'.

The sites function is primarily reference. Rarities could be posted in the reference gallery once ended - with permission if possible but I'm sure acceptable as 'fair use' if not sought.

Not an easy one - hence the debate here by the founding members pre-launch. I'm guilty of pouncing on posted rarities myself. I have so little time with a new job to get the hang of, The Fettlebox & everyday life to get out looking for stoves or spend time on ebay trawling for gems. I was very happy to add a nice stove & tin to the collection a few months back but if I'd missed it due to there being no 'Auctionwatch' on CCS that wouldn't have been the end of the world. It was posted in the reference gallery anyway so would have added to my knowledge & been appreciated like so many other items I don't have myself.

On balance I'd rather not spoil the fun of someone who does the leg work (or screen time) to find rarities but I'd be happy to see fraud exposed or related bargains (bulk mantles, spares etc) posted.

Does some of the desire for change maybe boil down to it being easier to post a link to a live auction to start a discussion rather than wait & take the time & effort to post the pics in the galleries once it's finished?

 

If prices were high, do you think we'd have so many fantastic examples in the reference gallery? We'd also think twice about taking them into the open or lighting them. And as for using them night fishing?!!!Quote

I would imagine there are more than you think that wouldn't, dream of taking them fishing or whatever, I've heard people say they wouldn't take certain stoves camping and I would take the north star coleman rather than a loved lantern on a fishing trip.

 

Well put Ross more good will come of this, than bad !

 

@ Burntofferings, there's been many a discussion over to light or not to light stoves on CCS - so I understand where people come from when they won't light a virgin stove/lamp (and I do agree, in part although I did light up an Optimus 96 that had never been lit before! ). On the other hand, most of us will light up a stove or lantern once we've fettled it. Would you rather that "festivals of light" etc didn't happen because everyone was too afraid to spoil the finish of their nice lantern to share it with others? Now if I truly had a rare lantern, I'd think twice about using it in anger, but not at a public display (unless it had never been lit). No I wouldn't want it damaged, but it's a lantern not an ornament...

I can look at the prices of the Petromax lanterns (the proper ones) and expect to pay in excess of £300 for one. For an Optimus, the prices are often north of £100 (and more like £200+). Given their apparent rarity (certainly in the UK), that's not too bad a price point. £300+ for a lantern is too much for me, but I have other priorities, like eating and paying a mortgage... Just how much higher do you want the prices anyway? Also remember how often you get to see these priceless works of art and where - do you want to only be able to see rare lamps & stoves once in a blue moon and only in some museum somewhere?

I'm going to add my support to the flag up dodgy sellers and notify people of things like mantles etc. but not the "look at this awesome lantern I'm selling so I want as much interest and action as possible as I want a really high price". A public service, yes, but not for personal gain (after all we do have a sales & wanted section yes?).

 

Sounds good.
By the way! This is just a poll started by an interested member only to see what people think.
It was not started by the owner of the site in order to actually follow the result if anyone got that impression.
But it's nice to see what people think, and I guess it can act as a guideline if a change should be contemplated.

 

Good job not all of us sit on the fence all the time, otherwise we wouldn't progress or improve things

 

expat,hi, I wasn't talking about a festival or meet, I was just saying some people wouldn't take their best stove or lantern on an outing.I like to own things that I can use but I understand why people keep their stuff on shelves.I don't want the prices of things to go up, just seems that's the way it's going. I haven't got a large collection and never will have so it won't affect me either way.The SDR or whatever it is would be better off in the hands of a real collector, or it might just stay where it is.I lit it last night and it is actually a nice old lamp.I feel like tidying the glass up but not quite sure how to go about it, I thought of maybe silver high temperature paint and then black htp over the top.Not sure what the original silvering would have been.

 

I wondered if you were, which is why I agreed that I would probably find it difficult to use a "best" lantern somewhere that it might get bumped or damaged! (I do have a 246A, 246B and ex military Vapalux 305 for the beach or the rocks )

May I suggest that it's right where it ought to be - in the hands of someone that values it and will use it?! Enjoy it

Sorry, last off topic post here

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, and I think from what's been said, if another poll was started with a third option to allow discussion of dubious auctions, then probably the result would be clearer.

Probably only you, Christer - clearly I'm not the site owner!

 

Well, you never know what people imagine, so I thought I'd better clarify that.

Most people don't know that they actually can start off a poll like this themselves, in any area of topics, so it might look pretty "official" when you encounter one like this.

 

With regard to prices I have always felt that things like lamps are undervalued which in some regards is good for those of us who like collecting them but not so good for the lamps themselves!

Over the course of the year there must be hundreds of them that simply end up being scrapped and many more that end up ruined by conversion to electricity... If the value went up and there was a severe penalty in terms of value by converting them then more of these lamps would be preserved. At the end of the day we are only custodians of these little pieces of industrial history... My hope is that in another 60 years many of the lamps you/we have lovingly restored will be highly valued and well looked after.

Sorry to go off topic, but just my thoughts on the question of value...