Porkpie Pump or a Frankie ?

I recently brought a Porkpie Table Lamp and noticed that the pump where your fingers hold to screw the pump into the tank had an unusual pattern/knurling compared to my other porkpie table lamps.

I have had 15 plus porkpie table lamps and have never ever seen this type of pump before in a porkpie. Can anyone shed some light about this pump and if you have ever seen one before.

I also noticed that the burner had square nuts with the springs on the inside of the gallery, but I’m more interested if the porks come out with this pump or is it a Frankie....

Regards
Darren

 

I've not seen that pattern of knurling before. Could it have been re-machined after being damaged by pliers or the like?

Tony

 

Vic said its an original on the very early Tilley porkpie table lamps. The pattern looks to perfect to be a home job and quite an unusual pattern.

Thought I would check in to see who else has seen one of these.

Cheers
Darren

 

I have not seen that knurling before either.

It looks to have a more gradual curve here too.


I wouldn't call it a frankie.
It is a pork pie pump no matter what.

I too will be eager to see if there are others out there.

 

What I can see is uneven spacing/angle and shape of grooves which lead me to think it has been worn or damaged and grooves have been filed by hand to restore some grip.

 

It looks original, though there does appear to be some unevenness to the slots. That said, could still perhaps be a very early incarnation. It’ll be interesting to see where this thread goes.

 

From page 34 Jim Dicks book.

 

@Anthony That’s the fella by the looks of it!

 

My guess would be that it's a Tilley innovation that didn't last long. Knowing them, the benefits (easier to grip and turn) would have found to have been out-weighed by the cost. Just my two penn'orth...

 

The dates don't match up though David.
Early porkies are 1946 and this catalogue picture is a 1947/48.

It would mean all short handle ones had this knurled pump.

Some thing don't feel right.

 

I wasn't suggesting this type of knurling was to be found on an early version only - Tilley were always trying new things at various times during production. I imagine someone came up with the idea, they tried it for a short while and found it wasn't economically worthwhile so reverted to the tried and tested knurling.

In any case, catalogues often used earlier artwork and pumps can be changed about. It's probably one of those Tilley mysteries we'll never get to the bottom of...

 

Sure David, that suggestion came from Darren earlier in the thread.

Another one.
I call them Tilleyisms

 

Its not a Frankie. I'm with @Graham P .
The original knurling had been worn or damaged by pliers or vice grips.. Someone just conveniently filed some grooves on it.

 

Tilley often tweaked the style of their pumps and the link below shows the relevant pages.

Tilley

 

Well, Vic has probably seen more Tilley lamps than I’ve had hot breakfasts, so I would not reject his opinion.

Given that, and the picture from Jim Dick’s book, posted by @Anthony, I would say it’s quite possibly an early type of Tilley X246 pump. I’ll have to rat through my box of Tilley pumps again.

Tony

 

For my 2 penneth worth.
Just from a practical view, by hand, I tried to cut a knurling into a damaged pump rim, after skimming it in a lathe, and I couldn’t get anywhere near the accuracy or the look that this example has. Again I must point out I’m a novice and my skills aren’t great. A more skilled artisan could do it, no worries, but all that expert work for a lantern pump?
So I’m leaning towards it’s an original little used Tilley style of knurling.
Cheers
Pete

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions. I have had probably 15 pork pies in my lifetime table lamps that is and never seen a pump knurling quite like this.

I would be very keen if you all could look through your pumps when you get time to see if you might have overlooked having one.

It’s definitely not something I’ve seen before and looks too well-made to be a home job. Especially when you zoom in and look at the detail of it.

I have no doubt Vic is correct but I was just interested to see how many are out there floating around or to see if anyone else has one.

The pump looks hardly used with all original internal parts. Remember this pork also had this burner setup.

Kind Regards
Darren

 

This is the burner that come with this pump on the porkpie. Looks like this was a really early model of pork. Might explain the pump maybe ?

 

Darren

I’ve checked all my Kayen and Tilley pumps and none like that one of yours. But now I want one...

I think your Gallery might be the same as these:











Note the mixing tube without a knurled ring:



Cheers

Tony

@Kiwiboy00

 

Thanks Tony have you seen pumps like these before ?

Also Vic was saying that this burner is a Tilley Burner not Kayen. Still im very interested what Tilley Pump i have on my above first post or what Tilley Lamp it belongs to.

Cheers
Darren

 

This is my Tilley burner with the dome removed. This was with the pump in question. Surely someone has a pump like the one i have.

It must be off a particular model of Tilley just not that common.

Cheers
Darren

 

Tony if you notice the pins on this gallery are not split like the Kayen pins are. And the nuts have never been changed.

 

That’s a Tilley burner. Given the discussion above, I would think that, if as seems likely, it is a short-lived Tilley pump, it’s off an early X246, so probably original to your pork pie model.

Tony

 

That bug screen dome shaped thing is nice !

 

@WimVe

The Tilley gallery insect shields* came as both flat and dome shaped. The domed ones are aesthetically pleasing.

Kayen also made domed insect shields. There’s probably a bit of investigating to do about manufacturing and models etc. but here in Australia we can find plenty of examples on Kayen and Tilley products.

* “Insect shield” is the term used in parts lists for these devices.

Cheers

Tony

 

I think Tilley might have incorporated the insect shield especially during the time when the British Empire had their rule extended to the tropics and sub-tropical areas of the globe.
There's plenty of flying insects most of the time in the tropics especially just before a thunderstorm.

 

@MYN

The Tilley insect shields were features of Tilley export models and varieties. Tilley used “IP” (insect protection) as a designation for some product models.

Apparently UK collectors don’t get to see many of these devices, even in paperwork. But they appear here and in US paperwork and examples.

With our moths, they are essential!


Tony

 

Yes, they were available here in the UK - but as optional extras. Presumably not many folk thought they were worth the extra expense because, although we do see them from time to time, they're not that common. Generally two types - the one-piece kind with two parallel wires that grip the sides of the vapouriser and the hinged type with the curly spring. The top plates for the table lamp burners are hardly seen at all...

We generally don't have kamikaze insects over here...

 

Much appreciate all your help and comments guys, invaluable forum. Last question did the porkpie table lamps short/tall come out from the factory with the gallery springs on the outside or inside or both ?

I was under the impression they were originally fitted with springs on the outside. Can someone please clarify this.

Also dates of the gallery’s if they were infact fitted with both styles so i know what era/dates please.

Regards
Darren

 

As far as I know the springs went from the inside to the outside post-war.
That would make them outside springs.

The term 'post-war' is not exactly a date to go on so more research on this.

EDIT
I've already contradicted myself with this.