Well I've started polishing the lamp and it's hard work! Anyone got any tips on how to take the grime of before applying the Brasso? I've used most of a small tin of Brasso and the pump and filler cap are looking quite good. The hood though is slow progress, I can see it taking another tin of Brasso.... Doh, must wear gloves next time.
I've just done mine with a Wire wheel in a drill. and held the drill in a vice. And the cage too. I had to be careful though not to damage myself or the work piece Ozz
The way I do it - I don't claim this is the best but it's my way. Others will have different methods.: 1. Completely dismantle lamp. 2. Remove all paint with paint stripper. 3. Soak in a mild solution of 'Spirits of Salts' - don't soak enamelled hoods as the solution will remove any shine. 4. Take items out of solution and give a light rub with fine wire wool to remove crud. 5. Go over everything with P240 grade paper (Bialaddin and Vapalux tanks have a 'orange peel' finish which you will have to remove if you are after a mirror shine). 6. Go over everything again with P600 grade. 7. Polish with a Dremel or buffing wheel. 8. Reassemble with new washers/leathers and copper anti-seize grease on all threads.
Hi Nials i usualy soak the i hot water and a detergent usualy washing soda,to wash off any oil grease and soot,if the paint on the tank is not stable that it self some times can remove the paint with the help of a scourer or ultra fine steel wool,but do not use any thing coarser to remove heavey tarnish a weak solution of citric acid desolved in hot water for about 10 mins watching over it just to make sure it just takes away the tarnish and not bring out the copper colour,but can in the future as i have learnt from on here and on CCS can if left to long in the solution can bring out stress cracking in the future years,the very best solution would be to use a ultrasonic cleaner with out a acid based solution to clean of the tarnish,i have bench grinder and one side of it i have converted it to take a polishing mop,i have three mops and four grades of polishing soap for the various stages of polishing, this is only used if i want a lantern/stove tank to have a polished brass finnish,if the tank is to be painted then the brass will need a key i would use the finest wet and dry paper or a ulta fine steel wool just to take of the shine and not remove the brass just to form a key for the paint to adhere as it is vital not to remove any of the brass
Dear me Hydrochloric acid yet?? Citric is bad enough but spirits of salt are a strict no no on brass lamp founts. You might as well take a hammer to it. Be quicker to destroy it but about as certain. Brasso is not a good polish to use. There is far too much ammonia in that stuff. Use Autosol which is much kinder to the brass. Bialadin lamps do not polish easily because they have a light stipple as a key for the paint and to get a good shine you have to polish that stipple away. Not an easy job with a polishing wheel never mind doing it the hard way by hand. Mind you we all learn because I have polished these in the past and used acids to clean them up. Older and wiser now though and the best way to clean is with the wire brush or polishing wheel and then paint it in its original colours. They were never polished as new anyway. ::Neil::
Hi Neil very sound advice which i must admit my guilt i have used citric and spirits of salt many times, to remove tarnish on mainly stove tanks but i have all ways used a very weak solution for a short time so just the tarnish is removed with very little pinking to the brass,is this still dangerous to the brass,would the spirits of salt still be more of a no no if the solution was dilluted to a weaker solution than citric acid would this still be more danger than citric acid
Note I said 'a mild solution of 'Spirits of Salts'. Personally I don't use Brasso but I recently discussed it with a friend who was an engineer on The Royal Yacht Brittania. He told me that they got throught 2-3 tins of Brasso per day in the engine room to polish all the copper and brass pipework. The pipework operated at much higher pressures and temperatures than lamps and he had never heard of it causing any problems. He described the amount of ammonia in Brasso as 'minute'. He did however say that the composition of Brasso varied around the world and they were only allowed to use UK produced Brasso.
Once you've got any amount of pinking, then you've either used too strong a solution or left the object in too long (or both!). Given that brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, what's happened is that the zinc has been removed preferentially by the acid (because zinc is more reactive than copper0 and left a thin layer of copper on the surface. That's oxidised slightly and become pink in colour. Apart from the loss of zinc metal, the pink colour is not only a bu&&er to polish off, you've lost a small amount of copper metal too. I'd be extremely wary of using any mineral acid at all - e.g. 'spirits of salt' which is, I think, hydrochloric acid and the use of that name was discontinued about 100 years ago.. I admit to putting brass objects into vinegar i.e. dilute acetic acid (organic as opposed to mineral) for no more than twenty minutes at a time. After this time, I rinse the vinegar off using my thumbs or sometimes a brass wire brush to remove the loosened crud - it's amazing how much comes off this way and I rarely have to put anything back for a further 20 minutes soaking. Once clean, I usually return the object to it's original finish by repainting. I never leave brass uncoated so that repeated polishing become necessary. I think there's a distinction to be drawn between using Brasso on chunky plumbing fittings and handrails etc. and relatively thin brass sheet...
Yes I agree. Brass and copper pipe is always made to industry standards which means it will be designed and made for a specific working pressure but then will have a test pressure of twice that and a factory test of twice the test. That means that such pipes have a great deal of safety built in and a bit of metal loss due to polishing is not important. It is much more important in our application on thiner brass because of the lower pressures and the way the brass is worked to form the tanks. ::Neil::
I take the point about the Spirits of Salts and will discontinue my use of it. As always, your advice is very much appreciated. BTW you can still buy it under that name - sold in my local DIY shop and made by Barrettine's of Bristol.
We got an informative article from Neil a while ago on this subject. I recommend everyone to read it. It is to be found [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/3084 I must admit that I also cheated with the easy way with citric acid etc. now and then, but have stopped with it. (I can use it on burner parts and such, though.) That document of Neil tell us that Autosol is fairly OK (They don't recommend it, nota bene!) since the amount of ammonia is lower than most others, but I'm actually a bit reluctant to use it anyway... Atleast on really thin metals or those that must have been hard rolled during manufacturing. Probably nothing to worry about for us with our thicker tanks here in the "pressure family", though. But for the thinner brasses... Many years ago I got some brass Tito Landis of the more common models. They are made out of a very thin material, and quite small in diameter. I gladly polished them with Autosol since that is what we use here for many shiny things, and always have laying about, and wouldn't you know! Six months later they were covered with vertical stress cracks along the entire tanks. This has happened with other, similar items I used Autosol on before. It's of course impossible to prove that the polishing was to blame in these cases, but it's hard to imagine what else it could be with an object that has done fine over a whole lot of decades, and then turned bad after about just half a year in my gentle hands. It's no proof, but it's circumstantial evidence enough to me to atleast take a bit of care even with Autosol.
Hi gentleman some great infomation and advice on the damage, acid based cleaning of brass tanks on our lanterns and stoves can do, and on reading the very wise and sound advice,in my opinion all acid based cleaning of sheet brass is a no no and are all equally as harmfull in the long run,spirits of salt is no more harmfull to sheet brass than citric acid which is the favoured method from collectors on here and on CCS,for removing tarnish from there tanks,as each acid based cleaning solution can be made as strong or as weak as the users choice,for example a couple of tea spoons of spirits of salt in a couple of pints of hot water would be kinder to the brass than a standard solution of citric acid solution. the safest solution to when we desire a polished tank on our lanterns and stove tanks would be to use a ultrasonic bath useing a non acid based cleaning solution,and then as Neil sugest's use a polishing mop only to achieve the shine and the seal the brass with a clear laqure to protect it from ammonia or other harmfull chemical fumes it can come in contact from,just how the manufacturers have done either by painting plaiting or with laquar
I have been banging this drum for quite a while now and I hope it is being heard. Any of you must do with your lamps what you chose. I cannot tell you what to do with your stuff. However I take the view that we are merely custodians of the rare things we have and it behoves us to give them the best possible chance of survival. In other words the name of the game is preservation and not just making them pretty for show. Ok you can argue that the loss of one or two common lamps does not harm and there is some truth in that. Most of the Bialaddin and Post WW2 Tilley are common enough for there to be no real problem about having a preserved example and a pretty one for show. Just take care of the real rare ones please. ::Neil::
Hi Neil very sound and valued advice and to be honest i totaly agree with your reply,when i now restore a lamp i will go with the original finish if it was painted then i will repaint it rather than go with a all polished brass,as presevation is far more important than looks,and is vital for the real rare and old examples,there is nothing wrong with making a old lamp pretty by restoreing it back to the condition it left the factory providding nothing is done in the restoration that could harm any of the parts in the process,in fact even a small collection will look much nicer if each lantern had its original finnish so there is a selection of different coloured fonts and bare brass but laqureed as they left the factory, rather than having every lantern with a brass shiney font,this way each lantern in a collection weather they are used or just for show will stand out better,as all ways Neil your advice is all ways much appreciated and i would still give out this advice as there are all ways new members joining who want to do a great restoration job and not know the damage these acid based and chemical cleaners can do or will do in the future,even the post prewar Bialaddin and Tilley lamps that are now not rare and common will in the future could be rare and some of the cause could be the fact that a lot of the fonts have been ruined by the effects of stress cracking due to acid based cleaners IE citric acid spirits of salt etc and being in contact with ammonia due to the shiny font not being protect
