Who manufactured Coleman lamps and stoves in Australia?

Note the UK article here:

http://classicpressurelamps.com/index.php?threads/790


1. It seems the Coleman Quick-Lite Co of the UK were importers and distributors rather than manufacturers.

2. They began in 1921.

Tony

 

Tony,

I don't mind helping you in your quest to find answers.

But.

I think what you need to do is document all you know or think you know and place it here.

Like with the stove site, I don't want to waste my time putting information here if you already know it.

I really don't understand what you mean by that Colemans couldn't have been made here in 1930 because of the Tariffs. Please explain how the Tariff Inquiry rules out Colemans from being made in Australia in 1930.

What is Occams Razor? Please explain what that is and how it precludes Colemans from being made in Australia pre 1950.


Nils,

I have already placed proof in this topic that Colemans were being made in Australia Pre 1951.

 

Matty

I said above that I would compile all of the information I gather (from everywhere I asked this question) and place it in one post. This I will do - probably on Friday when a few people have sent me additional information.

At the moment I have a some good people checking dates on lanterns (post WWII) as a way of seeing whether they were made in Australia after the factory in Adelaide that made Coleman lamps and stoves closed down; and what the earliest date could be.

My point about the Tariff Inquiry was that the importers (of Coleman Lamps and others) argued against the increase in the tariff as it would affect, especially, rural customers; and no-one making Coleman lamps in Australia argued against the tariff increase. Australian manufacturers were in favour of increasing the tariff.

Occam's Razor (or Ockham's) is a way of coming to a conclusion It is used in science and philosophy - see the ABC Radio National program Ockham's Razor ( http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/ockhamsrazor/ ) .

It's the simplest way to, or explain, a phenomenon - don't make unnecessary assumptions, unless there is evidence.

Actually, Mackburner has a short article on Occam's Razor and lamps here:

http://classicpressurelamps.com/index.php?threads/233

Having said that, Matty, I'm not saying you are wrong about Coleman being made in Australia in the 1920s, but until we can find evidence it is still a theory.

Keep digging.

Cheers

Tony

 

Tony,

Firstly, I'm most definitely not saying I'm right about when Colemans began production in Australia. My theory is going on evidence I've seen so far but it most certainly isn't proof.

According you your definition of Occams Razor I'm certainly not guilty of it. I only go on what I have seen in black and white.

I'll wait until you have come to your conclusions about this topic. Once you have published your findings,I'll then read it and see if I can add anything more to it rather than doubling up on what everyone else already know.

Btw, my point about you adding what you know is because that gives leads to other lines of enquiry.

Asking you what you think you know is similar. I and others can research and help either prove or disprove those thoughts.

I'm sure you are aware of this but I thought I'd mention it anyway. It's important that you read the articles and evidence put before you thoroughly not just skim them. You may have seen a similar article elsewhere and think I've already seen that. Sometimes articles differ in completeness of content and you may learn something from a more complete article.

When did the Adelaide Coleman factory close down? What year?

 

Matty said: "When did the Adelaide Coleman factory close down? What year?"

In or before April 1954.

Tony

 

So that's when they moved to their new premises?

That was my point to Nils about Proof of Colemans being made in Australia prior to 1951.

That factory operated for 5 years which takes it's opening date back to 1949 or 1950.

 

Btw,

I have evidence that Colemans were being manufactured in Western Australia from at least 1937 and possibly as early as 1932/3.

I don't like to make assumptions on one thing I've read so I am looking for back up evidence.

 

The point about Occam's razor is all about the balance of probability in that you cut away irrelevant evidence. If you have an article that states production is about to start that is one thing and gives you a maybe. If on the other hand you have an article that states production has started and gives a date then this is better evidence and you can forget the earlier "about to" evidence. So just one article will do it so long as it is clearly giving you information that not only has a factory opened for business but that they are manufacturing and not just assembling.

Most overseas Coleman production started after the opening of the Toronto factory in 1921. Because of trade restrictions which favoured the British Empire most Coleman sold in the empire was from Canada which as part of the empire did not incur prohibitive tariffs. For this reason most Coleman found anywhere in the old empire was either made in Canada or assembled from parts shipped from there. Actual production is harder to

 

Matty

The Adelaide factory wasn't set up until late 1950 - as I stated in the first post of this thread. The evidence for this one newspaper article from early 1950 stating that Coleman would not build a factory (see first post) and a further article in The Age late 1959 saying that Colton, Palmer and Preston were commencing manufacture of Coleman products in Adelaide (see first post).

The WA connection is interesting if you can find evidence. There were distributers there at the time, I understand.

Cheers

Tony

 

Hello Neil,

Would you then consider of Colemans being represented at a Manufacturers of Western Australia show to be evidence that they were manufacturing in Western Australia?

Keep in mind, it wasn't a Trade show.

The article I have states that the Manufacturers Show was to draw attention to the people of the West to what companies had factories employing people in Western Australia. That was to educate the public so they could support those factories hence improving local employment opportunities.

Perhaps it was an assembly shop that Colemans had but that doesn't sound quite right to me. It would be more likely that lamps would simply come from factories pre assembled.

 

This is what I meant about skimming through stuff put in front of you.

The article is dated 1954 and states that Coleman were manufacturing for 5 years previously.

That article that you mentioned about Coleman not establishing a factory in Adelaide in 1950 has to be taken in context.

What they meant was, they were opening a newer bigger factory and it won't be in Adelaide, they are moving to Melbourne. Hence the old factory in Adelaide will be closed.

Yes, a new factory was later opened late in the 50s in Adelaide.

 

Matty

I have read everything you wrote; and have not dismissed any of it.

I am a professional researcher and have been for over 40 years, although I'm not full-time any more.

For the last 20 or so years I've been involved in multi-disciplinary international research - which is kind of what we're trying to do here in uncovering Coleman in Australia.

I've got no personal stake in this. I am interested, but disinterested (not uninterested). By that, I mean I am trying to solve a mystery to share with everybody and I don't have a stake in its outcome.

Some members here at CPL and CSS have looked deeply into this before - what I'm trying to do this time is, to use the modern jargon, "crowd source" the information that is out there, and between us compile the evidence in one place - as far as possible.

My comments in the previous post were about the Adelaide factory only, because that is where there is reasonably direct evidence that manufacturing was to take place.

I haven't dismissed Melbourne as site for manufacture - it was certainly a big distribution centre, as was Sydney. Others have searched for it and come up blank (including the Austramax connection - which is tenuous as far as I can tell, so far).

There is a way to go before this story ends, so keep the info rolling in.

Cheers

Tony

 

Wow, I didn't know that, I'm most definitely out of my league.

Have you accepted or dismissed that the manufacturing of Coleman products was taking place in Adelaide prior to 1959 i.e. 1949ish to 1954ish

 

Matty

I haven't dismissed it but the only (almost direct) evidence I can find is that which is in my first post. The statement by Coleman early in 1950 indicates that they weren't going to build a factory because of the lack of materials and skilled labour, and the small market. This to me indicates there was no manufacturing by Coleman in Adelaide at that time.

How that reconciles with your article needs to be further investigated. For example the '5 years' could be a reporting error; or it could refer to the other part of that article, Melbourne.

So, we need further info about whether, when and by whom. Coleman were being manufactured in Melbourne.

Of course, I'm happy if we find evidence that there was a factory in Adelaide prior to 1950.

That's where the lamp dates come in: if there are lamp dates for Australian-made Coleman before 1950 and after 1954 it means they were made somewhere other than in the factory that opened in Adelaide in 1950 and closed in 1954.

Cheers

Tony

 

PS, Matty: I'm assuming you mean "prior to 1950", not 1959, in your last post.

Tony

 

PPS. the post two above should has an errant full stop.

The sentence should have read:

"So, we need further info about whether, when and by whom, Coleman were being manufactured in Melbourne".

Cheers

Tony

 

Colin Mills of Wollongong, Australia has kindly allowed me to reproduce this post:

"Hi All,

I did a fair bit of research into who manufactured Coleman in Australia.

The end result was that I was none the wiser, just more junk on my Computer.

Basically there were 3 avenues to follow . Colton Palmer in South Australia, C J Thomas in Melbourne and Austramax also in Melbourne.

A bit about the Companies

1. Colton Palmer & Preston Ltd.

A large Hardware Distribution with Manufacturing capabilities at Southwark in SA. Basically imported and redistribution. Did manufacture a range of GPA's

2 C J Thomas.

From what I can find out Distribution Company, seems to be centered around the Camping, Fishing Outdoor Sports. Probably did more but haven't found it.

3 Austramax

Say no more.

The negotiation part of Coleman Canada is a bit of a conundrum. Both Colton Palmer & C J Thomas claim to have the rights for the Canuk Coleman Manufacture.

It all came around as has been mentioned by increased Tariffs to stimulate the Australian Manufacturing Industries after the War. 2 that is.

On the 18th March 1949 a Mr Walter J Weldon, Export Manager for Coleman Canada arrived in Melbourne, Vic to access the local market due to Tarrifs.



All well and good.

Something must have came out of it because on the 29th Sept 1950 Colton Palmer etc announces





On the 1 st March 1954 C J Thomas announces





Unfortunately Colton Palmer etc falls on hard times after going through a major increase in profits and sells their manufacturing Plant.




It appears that Colton Palmer etc couldn't keep up their end of the deal or it fell through to C J Thomas.

Pretty sure that C J Thomas had the distribution rights before all this as



As can be seen the add is for 1948.

This is where a bit of speculation comes into play.

With the impending Tarriffs Coleman Canada is loosing an export market. An attempt is made with Colton Palmer etc as they have the manufacturing Plant. The deal falls through with the decline in profits, sell the Plant to keep the shareholders happy.

C J Thomas is the winner.

I am not aware that C J Thomas had a manufacturing plant but there is a continuing rumor that surfaces every time this subject comes up. Coleman Lamps were manufactured in Melbourne under License to Canada. The research evidence does not support this as there is no reference anywhere, but it may be the case.

The Austramax theory is in the same category, no evidence to support or deny the claim.

So after all that I am still none the wiser.

We still don't know who manufactured the Canuk Aussie Colemans.

Speculation will only lead you up the wrong path or creek.

Our only salvation is that " Trove " is continually digitizing newspapers and something may turn up.

Colin

 

From a 1950s Coleman-Thomas catalog:



Thanks to Colin Mills.

Cheers

Tony

 

Another.

A Coleman ad from 11 Sept 1943

COLEMAN

Coleman factories In U.S.A., Canada, and England now employ hundreds of men and women makirfg millions of Aircraft and Munition parts.

This explains our lack- of supplies every now and again,

BUT

We always carry large supplies

of Genuine

COLEMAN MANTLES

Also Washers, Iron . Pumps, Burner Tubes, Burner Caps, Valves, Pyrex Globes, Mica Chimneys, Needles, Gas Tips, etc.

Always remember we record your name when we cannot supply,, and in due time your re- quired part is sent to you. ,

COLEMAN QUICK-LITE CO..

185 William Street, Melbourne, C1.

 

I don't know if this is what you are looking for or not. I put it here as it proves they weren't made here.

The point of this ad by Coleman (I couldn't copy the whole ad) was that these were made in the UK.)

1935

 

Coleman never made blow lamps anywhere. They did sell one in the US which is marked as Coleman but they were made by Butler in the US. ::Neil::

 

After 1954 is easy as I have seen several with dates in the late 1950s and the latest one is 10/60. All marked "Made in Australia".

 

Wichita State University holds the archives of the Coleman Company. If there is someone in the US that is able to access the collection easily a bit of research may shed some light on the issue
Coleman Company Records

 

Excellent, Jones the Lamp.

Box 27 FF3A "Australian Coleman", 1982! That's the one we need.

I'm flat out doing my other work today, but I'll use the University library to try track it down.

Cheers

Tony



Cheers

Tony

 

We in the Guild know these Coleman archives well. All of that paper was given to the State after Herb Ebendorf died and Herb gave the Guild copies of everythig he had some time before that so there is almost nothing there that the Guild does not have copies of. This question of Coleman made outside the US has been an item of iterest for a long time now and Herb Ebendorf searched his archive diligently but found no evidence to support manufacture anywhere other than Canada. He did not think there ever was any manufacturing in the UK. He assumed the factory in London was an assembly/distribution plant only. The Wichita archive has very little from Canada. It was a Wichita factory archive only. So whilst it appears to be an avenue worth exploring I can tell you it is not as far as this matter is concerned. ::Neil::

 

Thanks, Neil. Well, at least I can cross off going to Wichita!

I will compile what I've discovered and not discovered tomorrow (I was going to on Friday, but life, and gardening, intervened).

Cheers

Tony

 

One perhaps enlightening statement from that 1950 catalogue is "Marketed in Australia" This from the Australian Coleman Co implies they are importing and retailing not manufacturing. If they were making the product then surely they would have said so? ::Neil::

 

That was my thought exactly.

But, we do know that both stoves and lamps were made in Australia, at least in the fifties. Some Coleman products were made in Adelaide from 1950-1954; and lanterns, like my "Scout" were made somewhere in Australia until at least the late 50s.

Cheers

Tony

 

Neil

The other bit to the puzzle is that the 1950-1954 Adelaide production was not done by the Coleman-Thomas alliance (Coleman Quick-lite Co who produced the catalog), but by South Australian firm Colton Palmer.

Tony

 

Who Manufactured Coleman Lamps and Stoves in Australia?

Draft 1.0

Note1: This draft is produced to get feedback and additional information about where and by whom Coleman products were manufactured in Australia. It is produced to stimulate discussion, interest, and more digging.

Comments are most welcome.

Note2: I’m not claiming credit for this research: most has been discovered before in various places. And it’s a collective effort...

Thanks to Handi Albert, HercL42D, idahostoveguy, Mackburner, Matty, Colin Mills, David Moody, Murff, OMC, snwcmpr, Shagratork, Nils Stephenson, Vikingson1, Warren, z1ulike, and others. If I’ve missed you out, let me know.

I will take responsibility for any mistakes or misrepresentation.

Introduction

The “Coleman Quick-lite Co. of Australia Pty. Ltd” was Australia’s principle distributor of Coleman products. It was the vehicle for an alliance between CJ Thomas and Sons Pty Ltd (owners of Coleman Quick-lite Australia) and “The Coleman Co. Inc. USA”.

Coleman in the USA had established a factory in Toronto, Canada in 1921. It was through manufacture in this Canadian factory that Coleman were able to take advantage of the lower tariffs on imports available for trade among Commonwealth countries.

A similar company, the “Coleman Quick-lite Co. of the UK” was established in 1921, the same year the Coleman Trade mark was registered in Australia.

In 1949 “Coleman Quick-lite Co. Ltd and CJ Thomas and Sons were [?re-]registered in Australia.

It is unclear to me how long the Coleman-CJ Thomas alliance lasted (up to the 1980s?), before Coleman Australia became the supplier of Coleman products.

In the early 1950s the Coleman Quick-lite Co of Australia had major distribution centres in Sydney Melbourne and Wagga Wagga, and agents in all states of Australia.

Manufacturing of Coleman products in Australia

It is unclear whether Coleman Quick-lite Co of Australia actually manufactured (rather than assembled) Coleman products in Australia, but Coleman stoves and lamps were made in Australia, at least from 1950/1 to ?1959. The evidence for this is, especially, in the Reference Gallery of CPL and at the Coleman Collectors Forum where dated Coleman lamps are seen with the inscription:

“Made in Australia by arrangement with Coleman Lamp and Stove Co. Ltd of Canada, Proprietor of Registered Trade Mark N0.67296-Jan-14-1936”

This inscription is the same wording as found on transfers on (undated) Australian-made Coleman stoves.

The Melbourne newspaper, The Age, reported in early 1950 the Coleman Lamp and Stove Co. Ltd. of Canada announced that it was not going to build a factory in Adelaide (South Australia) because the skilled labour and materials required were in short supply, and the market was too small.

Later that year The Age reported that "Colton, Palmer and Preston Ltd. of Adelaide, has obtained a tie up with the Coleman Lamp and Stove Co, Ltd., Toronto, Canada, for manufacture of a range of kerosene and petrol-burning appliances for domestic lighting and heating". The key word in this report is “manufacture”, rather than assemble or even “made”.

It appears that the Colton, Palmer and Preston Ltd arrangement was not profitable and the Adelaide factory was sold in 1954 to Fauldings (chemist manufacturers) who took possession of the site in late 1954.

The Coleman arrangement with Colton, Palmer and Preston is, on the face of it, unusual as there was an existing arrangement between Coleman and CJ Thomas and Sons. The only thing that makes much sense is that CPP were manufacturing to supply to the Coleman-Thomas alliance.
This makes sense of the November 1954 newspaper report that said:

“C. J. Thomas & Son Pty., Ltd., Australian representatives of the Coleman Co. Incorporated of U.S.A. has moved to new premises at Cato Street, Auburn. Over the last five years C. J Thomas & Son has been maintaining for the Coleman company production facilities in Adelaide. These, are to be co-ordinated in Melbourne. As well as this small appliance field, which includes lighting, cooking, heating, ironing and hot water facilities, C. J. Thomas & Son has been requested to co-ordinate manufacturing in Australia of the larger, heating appliances. With the new expansion plan in mind the new premises have been obtained.”

From this last article we could assume that the Colton, Palmer and Preston arrangement was overseen by CJ Thomas and Sons; that when the Adelaide factory shut down facilities were transferred to Melbourne; and that at least some manufacture was to take place in Melbourne in the Auburn (now Hawthorn) premises of CJ Thomas.

What we don’t know, is what products were made in Adelaide from 1950 to 1954; and what products were made in Melbourne from 1954 onwards and for how long. We also don’t know whether there were any Coleman products being manufactured in Melbourne before 1954 while the Adelaide factory was in operation.

A 1950s Australian Coleman-Thomas catalogue has the words: “Products are manufactured in 5 large factories” (in Canada and USA) and that Coleman products were “ ‘marketed’ in Australia solely by CJ Thomas and Sons”.

One word of caution, at least in my mind. The term “Made in Australia” could be ambiguous – used loosely, it could mean assembled in Australia, whereas “manufacture” has a more precise meaning.

What is needed now
1. Evidence of what Coleman products were manufactured in Adelaide from 1950 to 1954.
2. Evidence of manufacture in Melbourne, where and when (Cato St?).
3. Evidence of manufacture after 1959 and before 1950.
4. Anything else.

Keep digging.

PS. The more i look into this the more I become convinced that Austramax did not manufacture Coleman products - but I may be wrong.

Cheers

Tony